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-   -   Manafort Trial (http://www.politicalchat.org/showthread.php?t=12499)

Rajoo 07-31-2018 02:17 PM

Manafort Trial
 
Paul Manafort trial: Opening statements underway

The jury selection was amazingly quick. Since Manafort wanted to move the trial to southern VA, thought empaneling a jury will take a long time. Guess not.
Quote:

Paul Manafort, President Trump’s onetime campaign chairman, is on trial in federal court in Alexandria on bank and tax fraud charges. Prosecutors allege he failed to pay taxes on millions he made from his work for a Russia-friendly Ukrainian political party, then lied to get loans when the cash stopped coming in.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...live-coverage/

Chicks 07-31-2018 04:23 PM

Manafort defense blaming everything on Gates, lol. Uh huh.

Rajoo 08-01-2018 12:17 PM

From what I read, they have no other defense.
I am wondering though that if he made $60Million from the Ukraine deal, what happened to the money. And if he is indeed broke, how is he paying for this trial?

barbara 08-01-2018 12:48 PM

I doubt he is broke. He probably has money tucked away somewhere.

Noogies 08-04-2018 09:34 PM

When laundering money, one has to be aware of something called "slippage".

Dondilion 08-05-2018 11:42 AM

Judge reins in the term "oligarch".

https://www.politico.eu/article/paul...-of-oligarchs/

finnbow 08-05-2018 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondilion (Post 374474)
Judge reins in the term "oligarch".

https://www.politico.eu/article/paul...-of-oligarchs/

That was days ago, tovarich. I know you always defend Putin and his corrupt oligarchs, but wonder why it took you so long to do so. Putin will be disappointed in your tardiness.;)

Dondilion 08-05-2018 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow (Post 374475)
That was days ago, tovarich. I know you always defend Putin and his corrupt oligarchs, but wonder why it took you so long to do so. Putin will be disappointed in your tardiness.;)

That is where you have me wrong. I dislike the Oligarchs. My input here is consistently pro sanctions.

I however give credit to Putin for his deft maneuvering in preventing the dismemberment of such a huge state. The Brits especially have been trying so
long to do that - Balkanization.

finnbow 08-05-2018 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondilion (Post 374476)
That is where you have me wrong. I dislike the Oligarchs. My input here is consistently pro sanctions.

I however give credit to Putin for his deft maneuvering in preventing the dismemberment of such a huge state. The Brits especially have been trying so
long to do that - Balkanization.

That was ~15 years ago. In the meantime, he has pillaged the Russian state of much of its wealth and has become the richest guy in the world, richer than Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos combined.

Chicks 08-05-2018 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow (Post 374477)
That was ~15 years ago. In the meantime, he has pillaged the Russian state of much of its wealth and has become the richest guy in the world, richer than Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos combined.

No wonder Don The Con likes him so much! Pure envy of someone even greedier, dirtier, more disgustingly corrupt than himself. Donny is in awe. :(

Rajoo 08-06-2018 10:34 AM

Today is the big day when Rick Gates, Manaofrt's partner in crime takes center stage in the trial as a witness for prosecution. But Gates has a huge credibility problem, he is as good or a better liar than Trump. So the gloves are sure to come off and realistically attacking Gate's credibility is the only defense they have. Let's hope Judge Elliot restrains himself from pontificating and let the two sides duke it out.

Rick Gates — and the lies he’s admitted telling — to take center stage at Manafort trial

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.3911fcedf008

Dondilion 08-06-2018 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow (Post 374477)
That was ~15 years ago. In the meantime, he has pillaged the Russian state of much of its wealth and has become the richest guy in the world, richer than Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos combined.

Browder is engaging in hyperbolic propaganda.

If Vlad forced the Oligarchs "to hand over large chunk of their holdings to him" he would not survive for two seconds.

Vlad inherited the Oligarch System and is first and foremost a nationalist. If he abuses the system to 'Browder' extent he would put his country at risk. What he has done over time is fine tune the system so that more of it serves the state.

Some thoughts from Bershidsky re pronouncement of Ellis.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...judge-is-right

finnbow 08-06-2018 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondilion (Post 374505)
Browder is engaging in hyperbolic propaganda.

If Vlad forced the Oligarchs "to hand over large chunk of their holdings to him" he would not survive for two seconds.

Vlad inherited the Oligarch System and is first and foremost a nationalist. If he abuses the system to 'Browder' extent he would put his country at risk. What he has done over time is fine tune the system so that more of it serves the state.

Some thoughts from Bershidsky re pronouncement of Ellis.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...judge-is-right

Oh really? Tell that to all the people he has misled, threatened and murdered. You're as much of a Putin sycophant as Whell is a Trump sycophant.:rolleyes:

donquixote99 08-06-2018 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondilion (Post 374505)
What he has done over time is fine tune the system so that more of it serves the state.

How do you say 'L'etat, c'est moi!' in Russian?

finnbow 08-06-2018 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donquixote99 (Post 374510)
How do you say 'L'etat, c'est moi!' in Russian?

состояние - это я

Those Russians have a different word for everything.;)

Chicks 08-06-2018 05:20 PM

Jim Sciutto
@jimsciutto
I have seen some cold stares in my life but watching Paul Manafort stare down his former deputy, arms crossed, as Rick Gates recounted the long list of his alleged crimes was remarkable. #ManafortTrial
1:41 PM · Aug 6, 2018

Dondilion 08-06-2018 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donquixote99 (Post 374510)
How do you say 'L'etat, c'est moi!' in Russian?

In a sense that is Vlad's dilemma.

The 'wild, wild west' transition from Communism worked against establishing institutions for respectable governance.

In addition there are ever present powerful forces trying to dismantle the state.

It appears that Vlad is attempting to establish church and state for continuity and stability.

Notice the restoration of Churches which were destroyed by the terrible Bolsheviks, the frenzied building of new ones and the elevation of leaders of the Orthodox faith.

Pio1980 08-06-2018 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow (Post 374511)
состояние - это я

Those Russians have a different word for everything.;)

But no conjunctions.

Pio1980 08-06-2018 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondilion (Post 374522)
In a sense that is Vlad's dilemma.

The 'wild, wild west' transition from Communism worked against establishing institutions for respectable governance.

In addition there are ever present powerful forces trying to dismantle the state.

It appears that Vlad is attempting to establish church and state for continuity and stability.

Notice the restoration of Churches which were destroyed by the terrible Bolsheviks, the frenzy building of new ones and the elevation of leaders of the Orthodox faith.

Co-opting the religious establishment is no doubt part of the strategy for regional cultural dominance.

finnbow 08-06-2018 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondilion (Post 374522)
In a sense that is Vlad's dilemma.

The 'wild, wild west' transition from Communism worked against establishing institutions for respectable governance.

In addition there are ever present powerful forces trying to dismantle the state.

It appears that Vlad is attempting to establish church and state for continuity and stability.

Notice the restoration of Churches which were destroyed by the terrible Bolsheviks, the frenzy building of new ones and the elevation of leaders of the Orthodox faith.

Gussy it up all you want. It's a kleptocracy run by a murderer. As for the church, they're doing exactly what the wahhabis did for the Saudi royal family or the Evangelicals for Trump - surrender the moral high ground for a seat at the master's table.

Dondilion 08-06-2018 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pio1980 (Post 374526)
Co-opting the religious establishment is no doubt part of the strategy for regional cultural dominance.

Point taken.

Dondilion 08-07-2018 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rajoo (Post 374501)
Today is the big day when Rick Gates, Manaofrt's partner in crime takes center stage in the trial as a witness for prosecution. But Gates has a huge credibility problem, he is as good or a better liar than Trump. So the gloves are sure to come off and realistically attacking Gate's credibility is the only defense they have. Let's hope Judge Elliot restrains himself from pontificating and let the two sides duke it out.

Rick Gates — and the lies he’s admitted telling — to take center stage at Manafort trial

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.3911fcedf008

- and the lies he's admitted telling - :D

This guy also admitted stealing from a number of people including Manafort.

The big question - What is the value of such a witness?

finnbow 08-07-2018 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondilion (Post 374533)
- and the lies he's admitted telling - :D

This guy also admitted stealing from a number of people including Manafort.

The big question - What is the value of such a witness?

The same as each and every cooperating witness - provide eyewitness corroboration of other hard evidence.

Rajoo 08-07-2018 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondilion (Post 374533)
- and the lies he's admitted telling - :D

This guy also admitted stealing from a number of people including Manafort.

The big question - What is the value of such a witness?

As finn has posted, he is a corroborating witness, not a 'he said'.
The prosecution has Manafort's bank and tax records, he just needs to connect the dots. Even so, this case is not a slam dunk by any means since there is a chance that there is a juror or two who is a member of Club Dotard.

Chicks 08-07-2018 11:17 AM

The Ultimate Betrayal of Paul Manafort
When Rick Gates turned against his former boss, he described a parallel ethical universe where lying and cheating were as comfortable as a well-tailored ostrich suit.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...trayal/566945/

Small wonder Donny is freaking out. His underling Cohen could be flipping on him in the same way Gates flipped on Manafort. Donny lives the exact same amoral life as Manafort, where money, power and greed are tantamount.

Let us hope there are no Whell-like idiot lemmings on the jury.

Dondilion 08-07-2018 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rajoo (Post 374539)
As finn has posted, he is a corroborating witness, not a 'he said'.
The prosecution has Manafort's bank and tax records, he just needs to connect the dots. Even so, this case is not a slam dunk by any means since there is a chance that there is a juror or two who is a member of Club Dotard.

Apart from 'member of Club Dotard' there are also many people who are just averse to this type of witness.

Chicks 08-07-2018 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondilion (Post 374545)
Apart from 'member of Club Dotard' there are also many people who are just averse to this type of witness.

“This type of witness”? You mean someone who is actually willing to tell the truth about his grifter boss? Would you include whistle blowers in your condemnation?

finnbow 08-07-2018 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondilion (Post 374545)
Apart from 'member of Club Dotard' there are also many people who are just averse to this type of witness.

Organized crime cases (which, by definition, includes virtually anything touching Russia or Ukraine;)) frequently use cooperating witnesses. Organized crime criminals tend to hang out with other criminals. It has always been thus.

Dondilion 08-07-2018 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicks (Post 374548)
“This type of witness”? You mean someone who is actually willing to tell the truth about his grifter boss? Would you include whistle blowers in your condemnation?

Not a condemnation. Nothing against whistle blowers. Just ventilating peculiarities in trying to achieve resolution in the justice system.

Many a times jurors just disregard such a witness...a negative character singing loudly because he is promised a deal.

Pio1980 08-07-2018 04:55 PM

Then, there is jury nullification.

Oerets 08-07-2018 05:29 PM

Best not forget Jury Tampering as an suggested avenue used in the past by other crime organizations successfully.

Rajoo 08-07-2018 05:32 PM

The evidence is now out in the open for all to see.
Perhaps the jury can be lulled into thinking that Manafort will get pardoned. ;)

finnbow 08-07-2018 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oerets (Post 374557)
Best not forget Jury Tampering as an suggested avenue used in the past by other crime organizations successfully.

He already faces witness-tampering charges in the DC court for his antics a couple of months back.

Oerets 08-08-2018 07:22 AM

I'm wondering what's up with the Judge?



Barney

barbara 08-08-2018 08:36 AM

Manafort Trial
 
I am so glad I am retired and can watch this soap opera every day.

Dondilion 08-08-2018 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oerets (Post 374574)
I'm wondering what's up with the Judge?



Barney

He is cynical.

Rajoo 08-08-2018 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oerets (Post 374574)
I'm wondering what's up with the Judge?



Barney

He is full of himself and wants to be the center of attention. Probably senile too since he cannot remember his own rulings.

Oerets 08-09-2018 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondilion (Post 374591)
He is cynical.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Rajoo (Post 374593)
He is full of himself and wants to be the center of attention. Probably senile too since he cannot remember his own rulings.



You both may be right, my hope is anyway.

Let us pray he's not in someones pocket!;)

Chicks 08-09-2018 02:17 PM

Fox “News” analyst: Judge in Manafort trial showing 'extraordinary bias' against prosecutors

Idiot Trumpkins must be SO confused, lol.

http://thehill.com/regulation/court-...aordinary-bias

Rajoo 08-10-2018 10:36 AM

What to do with Paul Manafort Drive in New Britain, Connecticut? :eek:
The street is named after Paul Jr.'s father who it seems was the mayor there when Junior was in high school. Stay tuned.

‘It’s totally an embarrassment’: A Connecticut town ponders renaming Paul Manafort Drive

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.e7e099ed8a38


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