This won't end well...
 

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/04/politi...ina/index.html

White House: 'The clock has now run out' on North Korean nuclear program

Not with an incompetent administration, which no doubt sees an opportunity to boost their dismal popularity. Sigh. Been good to know you...

"the clock has now run out and all options are on the table."

Which is it? Has the clock run out or are we just saying "We don't know what to do other than talk tough." North Korea knows Trump is just a dumber, older version of their leader with a penchant for goofy haircuts.

Ours or theirs? :p

Indeed!

This guy been ranting that he going to blow us away, and he is getting up to speed. It would be gross dereliction not to substantially reduce his capability.

Tactical nuclear, perhaps.

So, how to do that without inviting a fusillade of destruction on South Korea and Japan, both of which are effectively hostage.

If we nuke them, there is a significant chance they will nuke Seoul. Worth it?

We have an incompetent moron with the nuclear codes, making threats. Not lookin' good.

Trump will blame Obama.... his filthy butt stupid followers will believe him.

Speaking of which, what happened to Tom?

We have been spending billions on all types of advanced, sophisticated weaponry, we should be capable of making him non responsive.

Are we gonna wait until he nukes us...he has been saying that he has that in mind.

To begin from the link in Post #1:
So the WH officials wish to remain anonymous, so are they speaking for themselves or for the administration?

Trump Condemns Anonymous Sources as Staff Demands Anonymity

http://fortune.com/2017/02/25/trump-...media-sources/

So hypocrisy as usual from Team Trump.
As to North Korea all Trump can do is some saber rattling to show China's President that he is a tough guy ahead of Xi's visit. Only the Chinese can control N. Korea, notice how Malaysia capitulated after the murder of Kim's brother.

It is a statistical impossibility to neutralize every missile in their possession, and when dealing with nukes, what sane person will ever the pull the trigger first. And what do you expect N. Korea to do when they see incoming missiles?

We've been saying we're going to nuke him. Is he going to to wait until we do it?

All this sabre rattling risks someone going off the deep end. Your dismissing the possibility of megadeath in Korea, or Korea and Japan, because we've spent a lot of money? There's only one word to say to that. F U C K.

Do you think all our billions might give us a 90% probability of being able to totally disarm N. Korea or shoot down whatever they manage to launch? So there would be only a 10% chance of Seoul being incinerated?

If that was the case, would you find those acceptable odds? 10% chance of a nuke on Seoul? Would you go with 10%?

At some point you have to make the determination--Seoul or Us.

How very Christian of you to forfeit the lives of people you don't even know, millions of them, to "potentially" save your own ass. We did that in Iraq too. We should be proud........

"At some point?" Can you define this point you speak of? A lot depends on it....

Anyway, you're quite willing to sacrifice Seoul, if it comes to that, because there is some possible future threat to 'us?'

How sure do you have to be of this possible future threat to justify that? Is a 10% chance that the NKs will nuke us in the next 5 years enough? How much would be enough?

Is Trump's 'gut instinct' good enough?

The guy is not hiding his preparation. And he is stating it loudly and clearly.
Decisions have to be made. That is the burden of leadership.

F**k that. I live too close to LA Harbor and the Seal Beach Naval Weapons Station to be sanguine about starting a nuke war.

You really are coo coo for Coco-Puffs in this comrade.

And a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

Except this isn't a goddamn western, and we're talking nuclear fire, not six shooters loaded with blanks. Think with your head, not your balls, man.

NK does not have any prospect of having an actual first strike ability against us. They might in the future be able to do us an awful hurt, but we'd absorb it and then obliterate them utterly. It's always easy and agreeable to think one's rivals crazy, but they aren't. They are different, but not crazy. They will not attack us.

We do not have to face them at High Noon. Real life is not a goddamn western.

We have been pussyfooting and NK has played us - several admins. This guy is now building an ICBM. I guess we are waiting until he is MIRVed.

And the Japanese attack on Pearl was deemed to be just probable.

Funny how only certain players are allowed to have nuclear deterrents. And it doesn't matter if those with nukes are in the right or not. Everyone else just has to put up with the america's bullying and hope that a crazy man like trump doesn't gain access to the button.

Although I see your point, I think the options are a little different than your post represents.

Your option: US or Seoul
Real option: "Seoul" or "Seoul and US"

I don't know if we need to nuke NK, but shock and awe as bush did it should be considered child's play with NK. we should vaporize any and all missile, bomb making, test sites, and any other military complex they have. It should be done from the air without a single foot soldier going in. Of course I think I would offer an ultimatum first, surrender or be destroyed.

We can assume hardened underground facilities, difficult to detect and destroy. This is just a nightmare that may only be neutralized by regime change from within, and I believe there is more than sufficient incentive.

Please see my Post #11.

Agreed, a virtual impossibility and what does one expect NK Kim to do when he sees incoming missiles, which is a certainty. He is probably bucking for such a knee jerk reaction just so he can lob a few nukes into S. Korea and Japan.

Okay, so what are the options? Waiting will certainly end with a nuclear launch, at least on the part of NK. Then we will be forced into an action that I posted or even more extreme with our own nukes. I would hope our technology is superior enough to defend against his CURRENT level of technology. Waiting will likely make it more difficult to defend against.

OK, so when we start bombing that idiot, and he retaliates with nukes to seoul and japan, how much of our GDP are we going to fork over to help them rebuild...since we pulled the trigger?

Or are we going to do the usual and just say tough shit......

I question the assumption. A nuclear launch by NK just gets them a massive load of response coming in. Not good. Why would they do that? It's always fun and easy for us to see these weird troublesome guys as nuts, but I don't think they're that nuts.

The NK game forever has been to 'play dangerous' as a source of power. If they just mind their business and try to run a little communist country they would always have been like 'Bulgaria East' or something. They'd get no respect. But if they are armed to the teeth, and full of threats and provocations, THEN people have to pay attention to them, have to try to 'handle' them, and they play a game where they get goodies from Russia, goodies from China, and even goodies from us.

The nukes are just more of their old same game. But it works by being threatening, not by launching some big attack, which they never have done, and which would result in their destruction if they tried it.

Attacking them is the most likely way to 'force' them to do something nuts, in a desperate bid to get us to stop.

Point is, we don't bomb that idiot or any other idiot for that matter. I very much doubt if South Korea will support us bombing N. Korea, and S. Korea is one of our staunchest allies. Kim's threats are really a plea for attention and best is to ignore him. He does not have the weapons that he claims to have and the country is dead broke.

I would threaten China with tariffs if they don't stop supporting N. Korea. Money talks, bullshit walks, and Comrade Kim is full of it.

The problem facing the US is in other countries knowing full well, we will not go nuclear unless attacked by them. Thus safe in that knowledge feel free to do as they please as long as not crossing this line.

Japan and S. Korea and the rest of the countries in this neighborhood are increasingly seeing China in their future more so then the USA. This century is going to be one of China's ascendancy. For they look into the future, planning for the next one hundred years not just the next two year election cycle.





Barney

So you aren't advocating a first strike then. That's good.

And for what its' worth, I don't think the USA is in any position to be a threat to China in any way shape or form. China as a country is much stronger and formidable than the USA. Their organization, discipline and cohesiveness as a people makes them such. Tariffs? What would the US look like without China's manufactured goods......90% of our own retail population would be out of work. We'd be cutting off our nose to spite our face.

Bingo....

China has an awful rep with regards to manufactured goods.

That shit is forced on us for the most part via Walmart.

Real stuff comes from places like Germany and remnants of US.

There are many places on the face of the earth which could easily make the shit which comes from China.

China is essentially a "Steal and Copy" nation.

But they do it well don't they? And they also own our lunch. You get rid of Chinese goods, and you eliminate millions of american jobs.

The real goods come from south Korea...Samsung, LG, two of the most respected names in the US. Bomb Korea and we're left with some really crappy electronics. Third world shit.

The Chinese crap, it is the crap of which we define our "freedom"

Eliminate China, and there goes our freedom. Because our freedom is defined by our ability to buy buy buy......

Do what well?

At least you admit it is crap.

WTF.

Do what well? Can we compete in the crap market? Obviously not. We can't even make plastic forks competitively.

The Chinese can make almost anything to pretty much any standard that would meet a purpose or demand, they are building their economy on supplying the most lucrative end of the market. It's true that there is official corruption, selective oversight, and at least some disregard for patents and coyrights.
There are also some promising examples of excellence and pride coming from Chinese entrepreneurs.

calling out China for corruption is certainly the pot calling the kettle black eh?

They do take care of their own, they heal and educate their people... which is something we can't say a freakin' word about.