Trump Pushing forward on Vaccines Causing Autism
 

I guess he's trying to figure out why he himself is so feckin' stupid.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr., a prominent skeptic of the safety of vaccines, told reporters at Trump Tower Tuesday that President-elect Donald Trump had asked him to chair a commission focused on that subject, The Washington Post's Abby Phillip reports.

"President-elect Trump has some doubts about the current vaccine policies and he has questions about it," he said.

Hours of controversy followed before the transition issued a statement saying nothing was official just yet -- the president-elect was just considering a "committee on autism." It did not explain why the president would have been discussing autism with a figure known for pressing the discredited theory that the condition is caused by vaccinations.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...accine-safety/

Maybe Jenny McCarthy turned him down.

Just what we need, more chicken pox measles rubella. Most people under thirty never worried about getting sick with these.

:confused:

Something may be the cause of the increase in autism. They should be going after that instead of a debunked study on vaccines.



Barney

As a father of a child with autism, I'm glad to see this issue getting attention. The Autism Science Foundation's position is that studies have effectively ruled out vaccines as a trigger for autism. Other bodies have taken the same position, based on currently available data.

I think its important to understand that while recent studies have not found a link, the research on this topic is not complete. Some of the studies that didn't find a link clearly stated that more research was necessary, and the that results of the study could not prove or disprove a link between vaccination and the onset of autism. There are on-going studies attempting to determine the cause / trigger for autism. It is still not known what causes / triggers autism.

Among those studies is the CHARGE study at UC Davis. The study is continuing to enroll families who have a child or children with autism. This study is looking at the interplay between genetic and a wide range of environmental factors in autism. Vaccines are one of the many environmental factors being analyzed. The CDC and NIH are still conducting research as well.

Do I think there's a link between vaccinations and autism? I certainly hope not and current evidence doesn't support it. But some of these studies were based on statistical analysis of available data rather than direct examination. The CHARGE study is an example of pursuing an angle that is unique. Also interesting is that the methods used to diagnose autism have changed, leading to more frequent reports of autism cases. This suggests, but doesn't prove, that the link between increased vaccination rates and the rise in autism cases isn't causal.

Then there's this:

Interestingly, the city of Yokohama, Japan has not administered the MMR vaccine to any children born since 1993. Yet, autism rates have increased even among these unvaccinated children [27]. Thus, even as scientists continue to untangle the exact causes of autism, one thing remains unchanged: no one has yet found a scientifically sound and robust link between vaccines and autism.

Interestingly, Japan still bans the MMR vaccine for reasons unrelated to autism.

Finally, there are folks in medicine who respectfully disagree with the research that has been done so far, questioning both methodology and the interpretation of the data. Some of these folks are crusaders against current vaccination practices, and believe there's an unholy alliance between the government and vaccine manufacturers: similar to the "military industrial complex", this would be the "big pharma government research complex".

Until the trigger is found, keeping an open mind and not discounting any possibility is the right thing to do. Calling people stupid because they question available evidence is hardly productive or useful.

Yeh, I'm sure RFK, Jr. will get to the bottom of this.:rolleyes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert...m_and_vaccines

Whell, I also have Autism in a close family member. A nephew and feel the urgent need to find the culprit behind the causes.




I'm thinking it is stupid for a parent to forgo giving their child vaccines and roll the dice on them getting sick and spreading it.

There is more of a chance something from the many chemicals in processing foods or the increase in fats sugars and salt to their prep and packaging. The increase in the use of plastics. Yes even vaccines should be ruled out. But we will never know until a answer or answers are found.




Barney

Our child was vaccinated as well. I don't think we'd do anything differently but we did choose to space out the administration of the vaccines rather then have a number of them administered at the same time.

But how miserable do you think it would make us feel if it was somehow determined that a combination of environmental end genetic factors which somehow include vaccines provided the trigger?

I can't blame parents for wanting to be cautious about this, regardless whether someone else might think their actions are "stupid". While I also have thought that - like the CHASE study - an investigation of environmental factors might be revealing, there's still no conclusive proof that environmental factors are linked to autism either.

Ah yes. There's Finn demonstrating an open mind. :rolleyes:

Why do you believe that he's the appropriate person to lead such a study/investigation? His PhD in epidemiology? Oops, he doesn't have one.:rolleyes:

Stupid may of been a poor choice of wording on my part.. Not wanting to offend any, if so I sincerely apologize. As a parent and grandparent who worried about vaccine use over and over have felt worried. But trust in the medical professionals knowledge.
Never wanting even a one in a million plus chance of doing harm by any of my actions. Know fully the fears of any perceived or results of my actions. Caution is always the best policy.

A better word might of been uninformed, distrusting even.



Barney

No worries.

I think there's reason to be skeptical about a lot of things. For example, I think its reasonable to wonder about environmental factors - you mentioned the proliferation of plastics - as a possible trigger to a number of health issues. But there's no effort to pull plastics from the market at this time. I think there are a number of folks who are aware of the health risks of plastics, but they continue to use them - including me.

There's just too much we don't know. More info is needed.

I'm confident that in your mind there's no one more competent than you to assess the necessary qualifications of the job. :rolleyes:

More info is always needed when the COST of environmental and health protection is high, whether more info is really needed or not. Isn't it?

And I am confident that you will only defend a liberal like RFK Jr. when it fits your narrative. Otherwise, you'd probably like to have a dart board with his face on it..................

Trumps plan for Eugenics? Stop inoculating the offspring of the peasantry and let them die off? Hmmmm............?

As a child my best friend, Stevie, had Autism. I was Stevies enforcer. When other kids picked on him, made fun of him or beat him up they would get a visit from me and it usually wasn't very pleasant. About 10 years ago while visiting family in Ohio, I ran into Stevie and his mom Carolyn at a Rite Aid. Stevie ran up to me and gave me a bear hug. Carolyn said, "Do you realize that after all these years, you are still his biggest hero?".

I hate bullies.

I take it that you think it's appropriate that an outspoken anti-vaxxer without any scientific or medical background (who published an article on vaccines that was retracted for him citing scientifically fraudulent material) is leading this effort. You're easily impressed by anything your Trumpenfuhrer does, as ridiculous as it might be.

Where in this thread have I defended anyone? My only point is that until a trigger is determined, I don't think we its "stupid" to discount any possibility.

And your efforts to try to put words in other peoples mouth in an effort to advance your intellectually - challenged talking points are pretty transparent. But don't let that stop you.

In return, try this: I take it you think its OK that someone with no medical or health services background, was put in change or the Department of Health and Human Services.

RFK jr. is up for HHS Secretary?

I challenged the choice of RFKJr, not the idea of further research in the area. Research into autism and vaccines by NIH or the CDC is perfectly appropriate. Having such research directed by one charlatan at the request of another charlatan is the issue.

You don't fund/sponsor Federal medical research directed by somebody already discredited on the issue (not to mention busted for heroin). If Trump truly wants to do something meaningful about the issue, task Dr. Anthony Fauci or somebody of his experience, background and integrity.

Since when is autism a communicable disease? That's what Fauci's experience and background is in. Maybe right church but no where near the right pew.

He's an immunologist. Considering that the research involves vaccines and the impacts upon herd immunity if people don't vaccinate, his name popped into my head.

In any event, the following article popped up a day after I made my initial point about RFKJr. being the wrong choice for this effort. The author is the William H. Foege chair in global health and a professor of global health, epidemiology and pediatrics at Emory University. I suspect he knows a bit more than Trump, RFKJr., or you on the subject.

President-elect Donald Trump met Tuesday with Robert Kennedy Jr., an environmental activist (and Democratic political scion) who opposes mandatory vaccination laws because he believes in discredited conspiracy theories that immunizations are dangerous. Kennedy told reporters that Trump had asked him to lead a commission on vaccines.

Though Trump transition aides later said that the decision wasn’t final, the meeting was alarming to doctors, epidemiologists and public health experts such as myself. Kennedy is neither a physician nor a scientist; he has been at the forefront of pushing bogus assertions that vaccines cause autism — they do not — and he has compared side effects of immunizations to the Holocaust.

Which makes Tuesday’s encounter just the latest indication that the next president might be willing to discard science and medical research on vaccination in favor of debunked myths. There’s a real risk that Trump could politicize vaccines, undermining trust in one of the great public health interventions in human history.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...public-health/

Hey Whell,
I have twin boys, age 18, both with autism.

To you folks out there, Whell's post about the correlation between vaccines and autism, is to the best of my knowledge, dead on. He was extremely accurate in his posting. I have also done extensive research, at least to the best of my abilities.

The rate of Autism has increased. There are lots of speculations as to why. The answer is not clear. I would offer that part of it is likely do to the increased awareness of the condition. I would also point out that a few years ago, the AMA changed the requirements for a diagnosis of Autism. The effect of htat change was it made the umbrella considerably larger. Things like aspergers, or PDD N.O.S. and others disappeared and are now called autism spectrum disorder.


I do believe, despite this, the rate of autism has increased.

JC:

Does your endorsement extend to this part of whell's contribution?

I don't think 'keeping an open mind' has to extend to 'crusaders' going on about an 'unholy alliance.' Basically, whell's report walks off 'innuendo cliff' at that point.

It sure as hell does not. It is a statement of reality. Autism research, like cancer research, research into behavioral disorders, research into (the name of your favorite disease here) has its share of good science and bad science, appropriate advocates and cranks. Some of the info out there is helpful, some of it not, and some of it is downright harmful and irresponsible.

What happens with the publication of medical research is often downright disgraceful. Talk about fake news. Check this out:

Much research is conducted for reasons other than the pursuit of truth. Conflicts of interest abound, and they influence outcomes. In health care, research is often performed at the behest of companies that have a large financial stake in the results. Even for academics, success often hinges on publishing positive findings. The oligopoly of high-impact journals also has a distorting effect on funding, academic careers and market shares. Industry tailors research agendas to suit its needs, which also shapes academic priorities, journal revenue and even public funding.

Or this:

Dr. Marcia Angell, a physician and longtime Editor in Chief of the New England Medical Journal (NEMJ), which is considered to another one of the most prestigious peer-reviewed medical journals in the world, makes her view of the subject quite plain:

“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of the New England Journal of Medicine” (source)

Combine this publication of questionable science with the information disseminated by newsworthy cranks, and medical news is, often in equal measure, a source of insight and a cesspool of misinformation. I'm not complaining because I love my daughter, but around here we "double - dip" into this cesspool often because our daughter has a dual diagnosis of Down Syndrome as well as ASD. If you're a parent of a child afflicted with any condition or disease that has no known cause or cure, you're left to sift through the competing information out there and do the very best you can. You do it because, at the end of the day, you love your child and want the best for them.

I hope you never have to live through anything like this with a member of your family. If you ever did, however, you'd know exactly what I'm talking about.

I hope your sons are doing well!! Bless you and your family!

Hey Don,
I read those last TWO paragraphs differently than you. And yes, my endorsement goes to those as well, and even more so because of them.

The first paragraph is a statement of fact. He is simply pointing out that there are groups of folks who have an agenda. They overlook reports, data and supporting documentation. They are calling it a conspiracy. It has been awhile since I did the research so it may be different now. When I did the research, the correlation between vaccines and autism had not been established. In fact there had been almost no studies done. Does this mean there is a correlation - it means that statements were flying around without ANY viable supporting scientific background. The "theory" of the correllation came from an off hand comment from a Dr. in an article in a magazine. It would be the equivalent of your children's pediatrician in his office speculating to you what was causing autism. It went viral. Parents of children with autism are desperately looking for cures and answers. They latched on and dug in.

His last paragraph was simply a recap about keeping an open mind for all until it is know what causes it.

I hope this helps................

Don,
A further comment about supporting whell.

Frequently his post's just punch my anger button. This post did not. I am sure it was because I have the same frame of reference in this matter. I guess I understood(hopefully correctly) his post. My point being, I read his article with a very strong knowledge and background of the subject that was not stated in his post. It gave me an ability to see and understand beyond his words. The blanks and between the lines info was already there for me.


My point, and something I find extremely interesting is the differences in opinions on his post. more t follow later.




btw - I am a touch dlerious today.. 102 fever and the flu.........

I may read between the lines differently than you, JC. Not a big thing. I probably shouldn't have commented here.

The point of this thread was the propriety of appointing JFKJr. to head a commission to study the connection between vaccines and autism. I can hardly think of a more inappropriate appointment, notwithstanding Whell's or JCricket's personal connection to autism. Whether or not previous medical studies in a number of areas have been tainted by industry involvement is immaterial to whether JFKJr. is an appropriate appointment for such a position (or whether Trump should even make appointments to study specific medical studies outside of the purview and control of the NIH or CDC). It seems to me that Trump is just throwing anti-vaxxers a bone with little true concern about autism (or anything else other than his own ego).

Being a high functioning autistic, I appreciate your and whell's excellent posts on this matter. :)

Wow, I thought this little tempest had been laid to bed years ago. First off, let me state where I am coming from...my dad was a GP MD. Two of my brothers are medical MDs, a sister is a pharmacist, three first cousins are MDs, my wife is a Masters prepared RN, and three cousins are also advance degreed RNs. We do not lack for medical practice knowledge in the extended family.

We also have our share of DD members in the extended family, as my wife's twin sister and younger brother both have profound CP, a cousin has autism that was diagnosed at 10 months of age, another cousin has a vastly rare white blood cell deficiency, and then the usual run of smaller strange things. I struggle with discalcula, but manage fairly well.

The range of autism diagnoses span between 6 months of age, and three years of age. These most often are early onset, with a minority being late diagnoses at the 36 month period.

The article that created the whole vaccine/autism link was written by Dr. Andrew Wakefield in 1998, and published in The Lancet, England's preeminent medical journal. Wakefield wrote that there was a positive correlation between the administration of the infant MMR vaccine and autism, observed in twelve infants in an English case study.

After years of controversy, The Lancet retracted the published article in February 2010, followed by the British Medical General Counsel stripping Wakefield of his medical license in May 2010. In January 2011, the British Medical Journal wrote that Wakefield's 1998 work was "an elaborate fraud." They concluded that Wakefield changed the medical histories of the twelve patients in the original study.

Here is a little review re infant vaccination schedules and autism onset.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/aut...ule-revisited/

While there probably is an environmental aspect to some cases of autism, the majority of cases seem to exhibit an hereditarial factor that creates a predisposition toward autism. This is buttressed both by autism spanning generations within a family, and relatives, and by the higher incidence of autism within identical twins vs fraternal twins.

There also seems to be a correlation between certain bacterias located in the GI system and autism, as these bacteria somehow seem to be connected to brain and cognitive development. Other factors that have a higher correlation to autism development include a higher level of blood testosterone level, and a few genetic markers.

The environmental influences might be triggers that prompt the expression of the latent autism, in some cases.

This whole situation is a lot more complicated than pinning the cause on the parents, due to their shortcomings. When I was growing up, many medical practice professionals mistakenly bought into the viewpoint that autism was a result of unloving parents, with disasterous results. Now we seem to be falling into a similar mistaken behavior, except now we are trying to blame autism on the best medical advance in the last hundred years, vaccination programs for infants.

W(h)ell, whaddya know?

This week, President-elect Donald Trump met with Robert F. Kennedy Jr., a leading proponent of a scientifically discredited conspiracy theory that vaccines cause autism. Afterward, Kennedy said that he and Trump had discussed creating a commission on vaccines, which Kennedy would chair.

The United States already has a commission on vaccines. A top U.S. public health official said Friday that it relies on an array of medical, scientific and community experts to set policy on vaccines, and does so in an open and deliberative process.

The Advisory Committee for Immunization Practices (ACIP) was established more than 50 years ago by the surgeon general to provide expert advice to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services on the use of vaccines for children and adults.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...l-experts-say/

I guess Trump (and Whell) thinks an erstwhile junkie and anti-vaxxer will do a better job.:rolleyes:

Meanwhile, it is quite easy to quantify the cost avoidance that the MMR vaccine(measles, mumps, and rubella) affords.

A 1983 study found the MMR childhood vaccination program resulted in the incidence of measles reduced from 3,325,000 to 2872 people, the incidence of mumps reduced from 2,100,000 to 32,850 people, and the incidence of rubella reduced from 1,500,000 to 3816 people. Mortality rates were effectively reduced by a similar ratio.

The medical care costs were reduced from $1.4 billion to $14.5 million, at a vaccination cost of $96 million dollars. This represents a 14.1 cost/benefit ratio.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3923849

It's fun to watch Finn hyperventilate about all things Trump. Its also fun to watch Finn and the media get it wrong time and time again. Kennedy may have said that Trump asked him to "chair a commission focused on the safety of vaccines. The media apparently didn't bother to confirm anything with the Trump folks, who stated that Kennedy wasn't offered anything.

Now, Kennedy says he and Trump discussed creating a"commission". Well, I guess it doesn't matter the the media ran with Kennedy saying he was offered a role on the Trump team, and that was wrong, because now Kennedy says that there's going to be a new commission. Looks like the media - and Finn - want to believe that too, even though nothing has come from the Trump team confirming it.

But Finn, if you want to keep talking about Kennedy serving on Trump's team and the "commission", go right ahead.

But it sure seems like you want a commission.

Meanwhile, due to the CHANGE in how Autism Spectrum Disorder is defined, the number of diagnoses have mushroomed twofold, to a rate of between 1% and 2% of all US children. https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/data.html

Gee, I think I pointed that out in an easier post. But thanks for confirming. :rolleyes:

I could care less about a "commission". However, if any of these efforts - either by serendipity or discovery - ends up helping my daughter in any way, I'll be grateful.

Whell, you pointed it out as a stand alone. I merely provided the reference. You are welcome.

Here, you can read about the millions Wakefield was planning to make off of his fraud. http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/ne...urnal-claims#1

At this point in time, every dollar spent on chasing a causal link to vaccines is a dollar less spent on gene therapy, GI therapy, gene targeting, and other, far more pertinent, studies to mitigate autism.

As I posted above, no one is chasing anything. This thread was started as a relay of qusstionable - fake? - news. No gov't effort currently underway to reseasrch any autism - vaccination link has been confirmed.