Drill Baby Drill
 

You go Boy.;)

OMG, are you really at it again????

What does it do for you?

Good God.

It's amazing how much better it sounds when he says it. It's almost like he's just trying to do what's best for the country and not trying to go out of his way to make one group angry in the process.

I'm thinking it's just a political ploy. I'm in favor of drilling, but I want to watch what's happening before I pass judgment.

Chas

I don't care if he drills. So long as he throws a few billion in to renewables.

You can't square a circle by hammering on one side. To square a circle you must hammer on all four sides.

I agree with support for renewables, as long as it doesn't involve ignoring the other three sides.

Chas

Drilling, there, will have so little impact on the amount of oil in circulation -- and the environment -- that I don't care if this is a ploy...

Pragmatism... :cool:

Of almost everything the Dems have done this is the most cynical. Obama can say and do whatever he likes, complete 180s, and there's nary a peep.

No shame. Obaama.

Pete

I grok the critique, but this is leadership.

Campaigns are Vision.

The two, in the Real World, cannot always coincide.

I'm good with that.

Where you get in trouble is when you refuse to modify a Vision, even when reality says that it's dumb: like say, invading foreign countries that had nothing to do with 9/11...

Is it? You could be right, I don't know. Certainly he wasn't the "drill baby drill" guy, but did he say he wouldn't support any new drilling anywhere? Maybe he did, like I said, I don't recall. If I'd heard that I would think it would have stuck with me as it seems an unusually black or white position for a guy who ran in many ways on nuance. Personally I think we probably do need to expand drilling efforts in some places. But I do not support drilling in places like ANWAR.

This move is consistent with the kinds of decisions I expect Obama to make. It's a good compromise position. Clearly the timing is an effort to offset the view by some that health care reform was a radical left idea. Throw this in soon after to try to appear centrist. But the actual policy is pretty moderate as opposed to the impression the other camp was creating that they would drill everywhere they could.

Okay, found this with a quick google search:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn.../?hpid=topnews

"Weeks later, Obama said he wanted a 'comprehensive energy policy' and 'if, in order to get that passed, we have to compromise in terms of a careful, well-thought-out drilling strategy that was carefully circumscribed to avoid significant environmental damage -- I don't want to be so rigid that we can't get something done.'"

Prety much what I thought. Not a 180 at all. In fact, exactly what he said he would do. Once again, making good on his campaign rhetoric.

It looks more like there's an election in six months than leadership.

At least to me.

Chas

It would be foolish not to be aware of the election and act accordingly. This has only been going on for a couple hundred years. Before that we didn't get to vote.

Anybody got comments on the locations he opened up for exploration?

Might just be smart planning. Between Hugo down south and the Iranian situation in the middle east it might be good to have another domestic oil source at least in progress if the tap gets shut off.


Doen't in the least help with the fact that we really need an alternative energy source before oil dependency breaks this country completely.

A ban of SUV's on public roads would help. If they pretend that they were built for off-road excitement, let 'em off road. Just don't let the soccer moms in their Lincoln Navigators guzzle more gas than we can afford.

No, I'm not really advocating that any vehicles be banned from the road. I do say tax the hell out of them (and provide a tax credit for those actually necessary for use in a productive way). I would venture a guess that "utility" has little to do with 90% of the SUVs on the road. I'm also a little suspicious of a 2 ton pickup that doesn't have a tool box on it. Too many of us burn much more fuel than we need. (Just like some of us consume many more calories than we need which has it's own environmental impact.)

I think Freud would have plenty to say about the US public's fascination with over-sized vehicles.

Regards,

D-Ray

I've read that they're not the most productive sites. Also, exploration is not drilling.

All in all, I tend to believe that this is nothing more than a crass political ploy by the Obama Administration in an attempt to appear to be moving to the center without doing so.

At times, I almost believe that the Obama Administration actually is attempting to bankrupt the nation. I do disagree with his policy concerning energy.

Chas

Yeah, I'm not in favor of banning anything. I wouldn't even tax the vehicles. This will never happen because it's political suicide, but the right answer is to tax the crap out of the fuel. I'd love to see $6.00 a gallon gas. That'd fix a lot. Use the money to pay for the war we're fighting to get the gas.

Before you dismiss it, think about it. Sure, people would get more fuel efficent cars. Demand for even better cars would motivate car makers to do a better job. But, that's just the beginning. People would start supporting public transit projects. Many would move from their McMansions back to the (gasp) city. Revitalize our city neighborhoods. That would help reduce the self imposed segregation.

Yup, a $3.00 a gallon gas tax pretty much fixes everything!

It is AMAZING, the gall. McCain's 'drill baby drill' wasn't mocked by the left during the campaign? Sheesh. He can do and say whatever he pleases and the left falls in line. 4 legs good, 2 legs better!

Pete

Really?

The educated, political, pragmatic gall? :rolleyes:

"Weeks later, Obama said he wanted a 'comprehensive energy policy' and 'if, in order to get that passed, we have to compromise in terms of a careful, well-thought-out drilling strategy that was carefully circumscribed to avoid significant environmental damage -- I don't want to be so rigid that we can't get something done.'"

I know it's not what we've become used to, but he really is doing exactly what he said he would do. Again.

It's amazing the Gall. The president does something that many conservatives are advocating, and the conservatives attack him for doing it. Kinda like going with a health care plan very similar to that enacted or proposed by Republicans, and being branded a socialist. I really don't understand the nerve of some people who bash the president for doing what they want.

Regards,

D-Ray

Well, it's because he didn't step into the trap, Don. As a Dem, he was supposed to oppose ANY further domestic drilling, so they could lambaste him for it. That's whay we have this, "It's a smokescreen.", nonsense. It's all part of his sinister plot to not be what they are claiming he is. "Ha, ha! This is what he's going to do next!-----:confused:Uh, um, well, okay. It's a trick! He's doing what we would do in an effort to be like us, so that we'll think he's not something else! Yeah, that's it! Take that! Ha,ha!" (I picture Maj. Frank Burns.)

Regards,
Dave

I don't think the conservatives are complaining about him doing something they like, I think that they're complaining because he's attempting to create the APPEARANCE of doing something they like.

They're simply pointing that out.

Chas

Or he's doing EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID HE WOULD DO and they're sore because he's getting things done and they aren't.

By the way, Obama's taking his lumps from the left on this one too. I think we're seeing that he's doing much of what he advertised, but not what many on the left and right expected him to do.

I don't see him making offshore exploration the centerpiece of his energy policy, the way McPalin were advocating, but he's exploring (pun intended) all possible sources of relief from foreign oil dependence - in the long run. I also expect that the Texas oil companies aren't anticipating sweetheart deals, since they don't have one of their cronies in charge of the DOE.

Regards,

D-Ray

They made their money on the last election cycle. The largest profits in history I believe.
I'm told they were supposed to reinvest some of said cash windfall into alternate energy and new exploration.

I wonder how thats going? They been pretty quit since November.

So you're actually on board with McCain/Palin, they were educated, pragmatic? ;)

No change :p

Pete

Missed a whole darn page!

McCain said it = bad. I don't recall Obama agreeing with him. Obama says it = good.

Come on. He just sold out the entire left. Again. For money.

Pete

That's about like saying that Obama is on board with the religious right because he goes to church.

McCain used to have a hint of Pragmatism. Palin's modus operandi is more like opportunism. I don't think that either of them would understand what it is like to be intelligent.

Regards,

D-Ray

Apparently D being considered intellegent allows one to do whatever they please?

At least McCain called it like he saw it, in this case.

Obama sold out the left for money, it looks like.

Pete

I remember hearing him say that you could build a coal fired powerplant under his administration, only you would go bankrupt trying to run it. I also remember him saying that under his administration, energy prices would necessarily rise.

You're correct, he is doing exactly what he promised...he's choking off proven sources of inexpensive energy. Higher energy prices will create more unemployed, not less.

Now is not the time. Renewable energy will be along, it's just not cost effective now. Make it dependable and cost efficient, and the other forms will go the way of the dinosaur.

I still suspect that Obama's drilling announcement is no more than a smoke and mirrors political move. If I may be so bold as to speak for my fellow conservatives, we don't dislike Obama because he's a black man, or because he's getting things done. We dislike him because we dislike his agenda, and we also take being thrown a rubber bone to be an insult of our intelligence.

Honestly, I don't think that you understand how conservatives think. You consistently assign us the wrong motives for our actions, after which you criticize our actions based on the fallacious motives you've laid at our feet.

If this is a calculated political move, I applaud you. Dirty perhaps, but an effective play. If you actually believe this, the only one's you are fooling are yourselves.

Chas

You don't have to be Einstein to smell a bullshit artist.

Just saying,

Chas

That's like saying, "I don't need to think ahead, I've got a good job." :rolleyes:

Now, IS the time.

1. So-called Conservatives are not going to do it: they have zero bravery.
2. Costing additional $$$ should lead to more efficient use.
3. In the long run, what Conservatives NEVER seem to play for, we (Americans) win.

Nobody criticizes Conservatives due to fallacious motives creating their acts of stupidity: they're criticized due to the acts of stupidity. If the only motives that can be assigned are outlandish, consider how ridiculous the acts are.

What are you left with? :D

I'm left with what I started with.

The typical response that conservatives are stupid. I'll admit, many of them are, but I've also noticed some mighty dim bulbs on your side of the fence as well.

Personally, I think we all have the same goals, more or less, but have a difference of opinion as to the means and timetable of achieving them. And I also think that we have some fundamental differences as to our vision of the nature of things.

Which is understandable. I hardly expect for you to think and behave per my wishes. But I do grow weary of the conservatives being dismissed as stupid simply because we have a difference of opinion.

If you wish to convert the conservatives to your line of reasoning, I don't think that by telling them they're stupid is going to be a very effective method.

At least that's the way I see things.

Chas

Besides, you missed my whole point. Which, in a nutshell, is you view the conservatives through your eyes and not theirs. Apparently you have no wish to understand them at all.

IMHO, playing shove it up the other guy's ass sideways isn't conducive to reaching a consensus. But what do I know, I'm a stupid conservative.

Damn right he did, and the dust hasn't yet settled from Bush's cash in on oil. I think the guy's just the right color for the left, and it doesn't matter what he does.

I'm going to think on this. That's a lot to pull out of my short post. But I'm tired right now. I'll give you this: I do *not*understand how conservatives think.

Thank you, Ed. I appreciate your consideration.

Chas

I hope that my opposition to many things political conservatives advocate has not been read as a slam on the intelligence of all conservatives. I do believe that people buying the BS allegations of death panels and a socialist agenda are not sufficiently educated in what socialism is and are naive. I think that we will agree that political propaganda from all parts of the spectrum can insult one's intelligence. My observation is that more BS has come from the right in the recent battles, but others may view that differently.

As far as McPalin, political savvy is one thing, and the ability to understand and digest complex policy alternatives is another thing. McPalin are politically savvy. I don't think McCain has ever shown himself to be a leading intellectual, and I think that Palin lacks the intelligence, the patience and the demeanor to be an effective executive. She got bored with her last job and quit.

I think the attitude here is generally, if you want to make a claim, be able to back it up. I don't see the failure to do so as failure of intelligence, but failure to make a point. For some who have showed that their desire is only to jump online long enough to throw out a couple of insults and refuse to engage in any discussion - I dismiss any point they wish to make.

Finally, I do believe that we can question one's motives. Clearly you are criticizing Obama's motives for making a policy choice that you agree with. I see that as partisan and point out the inconsistency of the position. As far as issues of racism, I have stated and believe that the level of hatred expressed against Obama is related to his race. If I have attributed policy differences to race, I did not intend to and apologize. Insults toward him that he is an idiot, he is stupid, he's only looking out for his relatives in mud shacks - those I attribute to race. (I know that I referred to Bush as an idiot, but he supplied significant evidence to support that assertion. I don't think one can make a legitimate assertion that Obama lacks intelligence.)

I continue to believe that folks can disagree agreeably, and that we can learn from each other.

Regards,

D-Ray

Finally, I do believe that we can question one's motives. Clearly you are criticizing Obama's motives for making a policy choice that you agree with. I see that as partisan and point out the inconsistency of the position. As far as issues of racism, I have stated and believe that the level of hatred expressed against Obama is related to his race. If I have attributed policy differences to race, I did not intend to and apologize. Insults toward him that he is an idiot, he is stupid, he's only looking out for his relatives in mud shacks - those I attribute to race. (I know that I referred to Bush as an idiot, but he supplied significant evidence to support that assertion. I don't think one can make a legitimate assertion that Obama lacks intelligence.)

I continue to believe that folks can disagree agreeably, and that we can learn from each other.

Regards,

D-Ray

I assume you're addressing me.

But that's the way I am, it's all about me!!!

No doubt I'm partisan, but I try to be fair. The point I wish to make is not that I'm criticizing Obama's new drilling policy because I don't wish for him to succeed.

I'm criticizing it because, from what I understand, he has only opened exploration to a few areas, and, once again from what I understand, not the most productive areas. This is exploration, not drilling. He is still blocking drilling in areas which would be productive.

My complaint is that he has not opened more drilling, but is instead running a ruse to make it appear that he has.

I'll admit, I'm running on soundbites, and I'm really not sure as to what he has really done. I could be wrong, it certainly wouldn't be the first time.

If it turns out that I'm wrong, I'll be more than happy to apologize. And I have a suspicious nature...but I've paid my dues for that.

I'll keep it simple. I THINK that Obama has not really done anything which will increase domestic oil production in the foreseeable future, but continues to do things which will decrease domestic oil production in the foreseeable future.

In other words, he's trying to sell us a cat for a possum.

You may think that I'm being inconsistent, but I think I'm being sold a bill of goods.

We'll see how it all plays out. As I said, I could be wrong.

Also, I'm not up to debating racism and the stupidity of our fearless leaders tonite.

Chas

PS: Never buy a carcass without a foot attached.