Betraying Progressives, DNC Platform Backs Fracking, TPP, and Israel Occupation
 

Wake up Bernie!

You need to unass the Democrats and go Green!

http://www.commondreams.org/news/201...ael-occupation

Good deal. Moderate governance. Suits me just fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t3cBTb3xPc :D

Change went out when Obama took office, with Hillary out goes the Hope.
But hey, we'll get a continuation of Obama with No Hope & No Change. :mad:

But you're a Rockefeller Republican, not a liberal. This platform is a slap in the face to anyone left of center, not just Bernie's supporters. It's almost certainly a disappointment to many of Hillary's supporters as well.

Reading the above makes it crystal clear why Bernie crashed and Berned.

President Obama enjoys an eighty percent approval rate with registered Democrats and a plus 50% rate across the board.

Sorry to disappoint, but HRC will still be better by a long shot for the planet the a climate change denier dim 1/2 wit!

Am I in favor of this platform, NO! But the convention is still weeks away, a lot of horse trading still to come.


Barney

To each his own Bob. I was not a supporter of Obama for his second term and I've never supported Hillary for any office, not even Mayor of Chappaquiddick. I don't go to bed with my marching shoes on. ;)

I wouldn't say that winning 22 primaries constitutes crashing and burning, especially in the face of his own Party's efforts to defeat him.

And I'm getting pretty tired of all the derision we "Berniacs" have been getting from you and ice, especially when there's nothing of the sort going in your direction I've been pretty hard on Clinton, but not as hard as I could be or want to be, but I have yet to insult, denigrate and ridicule her supporters the way you two have. No wonder so many of Bernie's supporters are planning to vote for Trump and Johnson. You and the Clinton Campaign have made us feel decidedly unwelcome.

Please see my signature line for response.

Voting for Trump because Hillary is a 'low bar' is shoving the presidency into a stinking ditch.

And not voting for Hillary is as good as voting for Trump.

Rock and a hard spot applies?

Rajoo, your signature line describes a dilemma but not a strategy. Of the four likely candidates in the fall, only Trump and Hillary have a chance of winning so those are the choices available to you. The best we can hope for is a Clinton victory and to do anything that would increase the odds of Trump winning the election is about as foolish an act as I can conceive of.

I now think it's about 50/50 that Trump will win unless Hillary is indicted or unless more information emerges revealing her recklessness and irresponsibility as Secretary of State. Then Trump will sail into office. So, I'm going to do what I can consistent with my values to see that that doesn't happen. In other words, I'm going to vote for her and not waste my vote on Jill Stein or some other no-hoper.

That game has been being played far too long. If democrats think that me not voting for Hilary is akin to voting for Trump, that's their problem. Give me a candidate worth my vote or find an extra vote to replace mine.

There you have it.

Those who like Trump will vote for him. If those who don't like him don't vote against him, he can win.

My sentiments exactly, though I'd say Hillary's chances at the moment are more like 60-40, unless an indictment comes. At that point, things will get so weird, there's no telling.

That very much depends on where you live. Conventional wisdom would dictate that Pat and I live in "safe" states, ones that can be counted on to vote for the Democratic candidate. DQ, being in Ohio doesn't have the luxury of making a protest vote since Ohio could go either way.

This year, however, could be different, there are too many highly pissed off voters out there and pissed off voters can do really stupid shit like voting for Trump because Bernie's out. If enough people do stupid shit like that some of these safe states could become very unsafe.

John, good post and my signature is simply a one line comment on the situation (pickle) we are in. Vote for Hillary is affirming a bad choice. Vote for Trump is inviting disaster. But as you commented, voting for Trump is voting against Hillary, which I would not do. Not voting for either candidate will not hurt Hillary in CA. Or look at the bright side, the DNC may have purged all voters who supported Bernie giving us all an out and a great strategy for Hillary. :)

If some decidedly mild criticism causes you and your cohort to consider voting for a Libertarian or Trump, y'all have some serious soul searching to do, John. :confused:

As to Raj shitting on the first AA Democratic president whilst fully cognizant of the most obstructive congress since the 1850s? Frack him, too.

Not a lot of love for der Trumpenfuhrer here. In fact, I have not encountered a single Trump supporter in MoCo, MD. Not one - thankfully. When I head out west hiking in the mountains of VA, MD and WV, I see a fair number. A strange, mostly inbred lot, I surmise.:eek:

It is a two way street. You seem to be very bitter lately about everyone who is not in line with your more than left of center leanings. The difference between you and me is that if Sanders would have won the primaries I would be supporting him right not, just like I supported Obama when he beat Clinton in 2008.
You seem to want it both ways: Sanders got screwed by the establishment Democrats. You never dwell on the fact that Sanders has not been a Democrat in Congress for the last 25 years. He decided to conveniently run as a Democrat because he knew he would have zero chance of winning on an independent platform in independent primaries. Nothing wrong with doing that but it is an example of opportunism; when Hillary does something like that she is power mad, corrupt, etc. When Bernie does it no one says anything about it. Has he released his tax-returns yet?
Tom Joad has insulted me about being a Federal Worker (and he is a retired Florida state employee if I am not mistaken), using Tricare (which is son uses), and not caring about those without health insurance, which is total bullshit. Joad has been sexist in his criticism of Hillary.
I don't think I have really insulted anyone to be honest in their support of Bernie. I have been rough on Trump supporters but I don't see anything wrong with that. I am sure I would have banned if I had crossed some line.
Remember that you guys have really been tough on Hillary also.
Sanders lost because he was not as good a candidate as Hillary. It had nothing to do with independents not being able to vote for him, and it was his responsibility to tell them what steps to take to be able to vote for him.
Plus being an independent just dilutes a voter's power anyway. When I voted I (like all us millions of voters in the California Democratic Party) could have chosen Sanders. I DID NOT along with 2.5 MILLION other voters who did NOT. The 2.5 million voters who voted for Hillary could have chosen Sanders. They didn't.
Here is the deal: You can't go back to a pre-globalization America. It is not going to happen because you can't change world-wide outsourcing. Now Trump and Sanders can promise this and it sounds good but it will never happen. There are losers in the globalization and we have to figure out what to do. Sanders and Trump do not appear to be the ones to figure it out. Maybe Hillary can. Maybe she won't. But the alternative is downright scary.
I am not going to beat up on the best choice we have when it comes to November 2016.

QFT. One could argue that Hillary is one of the worst major party candidates in years. One cannot argue, however, that Trump is better.

I would've cut John some slack had he gone after the blatant misogynistic shit employed by TJ and to a lesser extent by Raj but he didn't.

Color me nonplussed by his critique.

I think anything you have said about Bernie has been done in the nature of good-natured ribbing and you always put a smiley face next to it. You have not been nearly as critical as John or Raj about Bernie as they have been about Hillary.

I'm not big on TPP, fracking or unilateral support of Israel. This knowledge...displeases me.

I'm hoping it is merely a starting point for negotiation and not The Plan.

Like most Clintonistas, my tongue is a little bruised and battered from biting it these days.

I need a stiff bourbon and a spliff. :rolleyes:

It is a starting point, Zeke.

She's repeatedly stated her opposition to TPP, since the details came out. TPP needs to go back to the drawing board imo.

As to fracking, her position is the same as Obama's, it's a bridge fuel source towards a carbon neutral future and she's cool with individual states like NY banning it.

Israel is a political third rail but I don't believe she's in any way aligned with Netanyahu's Likudniks.

C'mon Bob. Cut the crap. She was all for the TPP until Bernie's opposition to it made it politically expedient for her to flip flop. Now that she's sure of the nomination she has instructed her surrogates on the platform committee to give it the thumbs down. That way she doesn't have to take the heat for flipping back.

It's equally likely that she instructed her surrogates to throw the certain doners this cheap bone. The platform doesn't actually mean shit.

Are you really naive enough to buy that?

This is to give her cover.

Trump was right about that in his speech.

When she gets in office the TPP will slide right through.

Oh sure, there will be some "changes" made to placate the opposition but they will just be a bunch of meaningless weasel words. I know how this game is played. I've seen it happen too many times with regard to proposed Transportation projects during my career at the FDOT.

Yes the better candidate by your statement is HRC. You will get no argument out of me. There always have been those who choose casting their vote more as a anti one. Nothing new this year.


Barney

Sure, Biff. Aren't they missing you at Caucus00percent?

I don't want to have it both ways. I said in the post that I've been hard on Hillary but that I haven't treated her supporters with the disrespect that you and Bob dished out to Bernie's supporters.

And I don't dwell on the fact that Bernie hasn't been a Democrat for very long because I find it utterly meaningless. He has caucused with the Democrats for his entire Congressional career and has a voting record he can be proud of. And so should you. He's more of a Democrat than many I can think of, DWS for instance. And if you think Bernie was being opportunistic, you must hate it that Hillary carpetbagged her way into a New York Senate seat.

I have my issues with Joad and have called him on his bullshit more than once and I'll continue to do so. But it is not my job to defend you against him. That's your job.

Globalization is inevitable but the form it takes should be up to us, not toe capitalists and oligarchs. And there don't have to be losers. It's not a zero sum neoliberal game.

And it's not he difference between you and me that makes me unwilling to support Hillary. It's the difference between her and Bernie.

And he released his tax returns months ago. You need to pay better attention to these things.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...-return-222041

One year's tax returns and a bare bones summary at that? Pfffft.

This is the second time you've made this bullshit allegation. Give it a rest John. We're supposed to be allies.

Tell me John all those people who voted for Hillary...why do you not see any legitimacy in that?

Naw, we're either stooges for the oligarchs or 'low information voters' in red states that don't what's good for us and don't matter in the grand schemes of the proletarian 'Revolution', doncha know? :rolleyes:

So I cannot have an opinion contrary to yours and if do, it's defecating on the President? It's beyond exaggeration isn't it?

Now I am a misogynist simply because I believe Hillary is a rotten candidate for President. Again exaggerate much? :rolleyes:

That's simply because Bernie is likable like Obama whereas Hillary is not and this is not simply my opinion. A majority of Americans think the same.

I will nominate your name to Pope Francis for a Sainthood Apprentice . :rolleyes:

Clinton is too tainted to deliver any such program.