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-   -   Reagan on "States Rights" (http://www.politicalchat.org/showthread.php?t=10352)

whell 03-12-2016 08:52 PM

Reagan on "States Rights"
 
Yes, here's the topic again. Coincidentally I bumped into this video on YouTube. Its an interview of Reagan by W.F. Buckley in which Reagan very clearly defines what he means by "States Rights". So, put your dogs whistles away, and listen. I think it makes things pretty clear, but probably sets the history revisionists back a bit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BuwYjbQOC8

bobabode 03-12-2016 09:17 PM

There isn't enough whitewash in Philadelphia, Mississippi to paint over Reagan's sordid history in my book.

Better luck with someone else, Mike.

Boreas 03-12-2016 09:29 PM

You're not naive so I can only assume that what you are is an apologist for racism.

finnbow 03-12-2016 09:51 PM

Never much a Reagan fan. His brand of economics wreaked havoc on the American economy for decades and, despite that, remains creed among conservatives. And no, he was not beyond race-baiting during his Presidential campaigns.

CarlV 03-12-2016 10:21 PM

Reagan was an effing idiot. The end. :)


Carl

Tom Joad 03-12-2016 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whell (Post 306072)
So, put your dogs whistles away, and listen.

Not interested.

"States rights" are right wing code words for "Keep the niggers in their place".

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...ing_dixie.html

Dondilion 03-13-2016 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlV (Post 306079)
Reagan was an effing idiot. The end. :)


Carl

Who maneuvered the Democrats, liberals, progressives and left his imprints
all over the world.

I would say he is the most influential person of our time.

Rajoo 03-13-2016 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondilion (Post 306084)
Who maneuvered the Democrats, liberals, progressives and left his imprints
all the world.

I would say he is the most influential person of our time.

His gift to mankind was Reaganomics and we are still bent over from it's burden. Quite an imprint I would say.

Dondilion 03-13-2016 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rajoo (Post 306085)
His gift to mankind was Reaganomics and we are still bent over from it's burden. Quite an imprint I would say.

He has given right wingers a veneer of scholarship. :D

donquixote99 03-13-2016 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boreas (Post 306074)
You're not naive so I can only assume that what you are is an apologist for racism.

Whell is the second, quite reliably.

Anyway, the premise here is that Reagan was some 'great man' and there's some importance to what he 'really thought.' Bah.

whell 03-13-2016 10:09 AM

Ah, the open-mindedness just abounds with the members of this forum.

noonereal 03-13-2016 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow (Post 306076)
Never much a Reagan fan. His brand of economics wreaked havoc on the American economy for decades and, despite that, remains creed among conservatives. And no, he was not beyond race-baiting during his Presidential campaigns.

this is a very good post

MrPots 03-13-2016 10:25 AM

Reagan is great among conservative circles because he single handedly brought down that pesky middle class...those greedy poor people that presume to want to live the good life only rich people deserve.

Cant have the rabble eating all his lobster......

donquixote99 03-13-2016 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whell (Post 306096)
Ah, the open-mindedness just abounds with the members of this forum.

Yep. We insist it gets dark at night, too. Won't listen to anyone who says different.

finnbow 03-13-2016 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whell (Post 306096)
Ah, the open-mindedness just abounds with the members of this forum.

I lived through 8 years of Reagan's Presidency and the nearly 30 years since. I feel no need to be open-minded about a guy who did so much lasting damage to our nation.

Pio1980 03-13-2016 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whell (Post 306072)
Yes, here's the topic again. Coincidentally I bumped into this video on YouTube. Its an interview of Reagan by W.F. Buckley in which Reagan very clearly defines what he means by "States Rights". So, put your dogs whistles away, and listen. I think it makes things pretty clear, but probably sets the history revisionists back a bit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BuwYjbQOC8

Bill Fuckley, the epitome of Fair and Balanced. Did they get a room after that interview?

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

Dondilion 03-13-2016 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow (Post 306115)
I lived through 8 years of Reagan's Presidency and the nearly 30 years since. I feel no need to be open-minded about a guy who did so much lasting damage to our nation.

Reagan is beyond our nation. Reagan is world wide.

Admit it!... The Democrats/Liberals/Progressives underestimated the guy.

The "idiot" communicated his ideas on governance, economic and social theory with avuncular ease and significant portion of the electoral listened and acted on it.

BlueStreak 03-13-2016 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whell (Post 306096)
Ah, the open-mindedness just abounds with the members of this forum.

"Open minded" does not entail being a compliant drone. So, folks here have divergent opinions. What's wrong with that?

BlueStreak 03-13-2016 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrPots (Post 306098)
Reagan is great among conservative circles because he single handedly brought down that pesky middle class...those greedy poor people that presume to want to live the good life only rich people deserve.

Cant have the rabble eating all his lobster......

LOL! Good post!

CarlV 03-13-2016 11:53 AM

Iran Contra, "buying" Bin Laden (not), recession of 83, market crash of 87,
What the heck

Quote:

1. Reagan cut taxes for the Rich, increased taxes on the Middle Class -

Ronald Reagan is loved by conservatives and was loved by big business throughout his presidency and there's a reason for it. When Reagan came into office in January of 1981, the top tax rate was 70%, but when he left office in 1989 the top tax rate was down to only 28%. As Reagan gave the breaks to all his rich friends, there was a lack of revenue coming into the federal government. In order to bring money back into the government, Reagan was forced to raise taxes eleven times throughout his time in office. One example was when he signed into law the Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982. Reagan raised taxes seven of the eight years he was in office and the tax increases were felt hardest by the lower and middle class.

2. Tripling the National Debt -

As Reagan cut taxes for the wealthy, the government was left with less money to spend. When Reagan came into office the national debt was $900 billion, by the time he left the national debt had tripled to $2.8 trillion.

3. Iran/Contra - (I break this down in more detail in the article linked here)

In 1986, a group of Americans were being held hostage by a terrorist group with ties to Iran. In an attempt to free the hostages, Ronald Reagan secretly sold arms and money to Iran. Much of the money that was received from the trade went to fund the Nicaragua Contra rebels who were in a war with the Sandinista government of Nicaragua. When the scandal broke in the Untied States it became the biggest story in the country, Reagan tried to down play what happened, but never fully recovered.

4. Reagan funded Terrorists -

The attacks on 9/11 by al-Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden brought new attention to international terrorism. All of a sudden, Americans coast to coast wore their American flag pins, ate their freedom fries and couldn't wait to go to war with anyone who looked like a Muslim. What Americans didn't realize was that the same group that attacked the United States on 9/11 was funded by Ronald Reagan in the 1980s. Prepping for a possible war with the Soviet Union, Ronald Reagan spent billions of dollars funding the Islamist mujahidin Freedom Fighters in Afghanistan. With billions of American dollars, weapons and training coming their way, the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden took everything they were given and gave it back to the United States over a decade later in the worst possible way imaginable.

5. Unemployment issues -

When Ronald Reagan came into office 1981, unemployment was at 7.5%. After Reagan cut taxes for the wealthy, he began raising taxes on the middle and lower class. Corporations started to ship more jobs out of the United States while hiring cheap foreign labor in order to make a bigger profit. While corporations made billions, Americans across the country lost their jobs. As 1982 came to a close, unemployment was nearly 11%. Unemployment began to drop as the years went on, but the jobs that were created were low paying and barely helped people make ends meet. The middle and lower class had their wages nearly frozen as the top earners saw dramatic increases in salary.

6. Ignoring AIDS -

By the time the 1980s came around, AIDS had become one of the most frightening things to happen to the country in recent memory. No one understood what AIDS and HIV really was and when people don't understand something, they become scared of it. The fear of the unknown was sweeping across the country and Americans needed a leader to speak out about this horrible virus, that leader never came. Instead of grabbing the bull by the horns and taking charge, Reagan kept quiet. Reagan couldn't say the words AIDS or HIV until seven years into his presidency, a leader not so much.

7. Reagan gave amnesty to 3 million Undocumented Immigrants -

In today's GOP, the idea of any immigrant staying in the United States whether they are legal or illegal isn't something that conservatives embrace. What might shock them is that in 1982 Ronald Reagan gave nearly 3 million undocumented workers amnesty. The biggest reason for undocumented workers coming to the United States is because corporations hire them at a cheaper rate than they would an American citizen. All the laws that would have cracked down on companies who hire undocumented workers were, of course, removed from the bill.

8. His attack on Unions and the Middle Class -

The Republican war on unions and the middle class has been heating up in states like Wisconsin and Ohio, but it has been going on for a long time. Unions are formed to give a united voice to the workers in an attempt to create fairness between the corporations and their employees. On August 3rd, 1981, PATCO (Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization) went on strike in an effort to get better pay and safer working conditions. Two days later, taking the side of business, Ronald Reagan fired 11,345 workers for not returning to work.

*Bonus reasons against Reagan*

9. Reagan raided the Social Security Trust fund -

With Ronald Reagan cutting taxes so drastically, the U.S government was beginning to starve. Reagan added to the government and didn't make enough spending cuts to offset the tax cuts, so the money needed to come from somewhere. Ronald Reagan knew that his polices would create economic bubbles, unemployment would drop and some jobs would be created, but in time the bubble would burst leaving the economy in ruins. In order to counteract his own economic policies, Ronald Reagan needed to find somewhere else to get revenue.

Listening to Alan Greenspan and other advisers, Ronald Reagan raided the Social Security Trust Fund and replaced it with glorified IOU's. Ronald Reagan raised the Social Security tax rate which did add to the revenue, but because there is a cap on Social Security, currently no income over $113,700 is taxed for Social Security, the wealthy didn't feel the tax increase and the pain was pushed to the middle and lower classes.

10. Endless worship and never-ending praise -

Ronald Reagan left office in January of 1989 and nearly 25 years later he is held up high by the modern Republican party. As nearly three decades have gone by since Ronald Reagan was in the White House, reality and history has faded with time. Conservative figures like anti-tax Grover Norquist created the "Ronald Reagan Legacy Project" with a goal of memorializing Reagan in all 50 states. As stated in this article, Ronald Reagan did a lot to hurt the United States, not just while he was in office, but in the years that have followed. What's scary about today's current Republican party is that while Reagan was one of the worst presidents this country has had to endure over the last 100 years, he would be considered too moderate to be nominated by today's conservative standards.
The rest of the article
http://www.examiner.com/article/8-re...f-our-lifetime


Carl

CarlV 03-13-2016 11:55 AM

How many lives did he cost buying Bin Laden('s hatred)? :(




Carl

finnbow 03-13-2016 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondilion (Post 306131)
Reagan is beyond our nation. Reagan is world wide.

Admit it!... The Democrats/Liberals/Progressives underestimated the guy.

The "idiot" communicated his ideas on governance, economic and social theory with avuncular ease and significant portion of the electoral listened and acted on it.

I lived overseas (in Germany) for most of Reagan's Presidency and, being a German speaker, got really tired of defending his idiocy to nearly everybody I met who realized I was American. Similarly, I was overseas a lot during Dubya's Presidency and got real tired of defending that moron too.

BlueStreak 03-13-2016 12:25 PM

So, Buckley and Reagan discuss ways to restrict the movement of citizens from one state to another, based on the premise that it's the uniformity of "welfare" regulation that draws them to more temperate climates. Then, they claim uniformity of unemployment and labor regulation nationwide, restricts the ability of businesses to move from one state to another seeking "more favorable conditions"? Face it, they're talking about cheaper, more compliant labor markets and more stringent requirements on the social safety net.

And, all of this in 1967.

The wild card in this economic theory is globalization. Competition between Michigan and Ohio or Ohio and Georgia is one thing. At what point is a government obliged to protect industry and workers from competition they cannot possibly compete with domestically, without subjecting ones own workers to unacceptable conditions found in such a place as Communist China?

Sorry, but I still believe minimum standards are not only good, but necessary for humane reasons. Unchecked competition between states and foreign nations is not "all good". The problems a state such as yours has, Mikey, are double edged sword. Perhaps wages and the safety net there became too expensive at some point, but it can also be said that costs are too low elsewhere. Ultimately a government is judged by how it treats it's people. Are we human beings or chattel to be abandoned for the most "favorable" (Read; "profitable",) conditions?

No thanks, Ronnie. Stay in your grave, please.

BlueStreak 03-13-2016 12:34 PM

Also, bear in mind that as businesses abandon a state or the country entirely, social safety net costs rise concurrent to the loss of revenue generation.

Reagans model encourages businesses to seek the lowest cost conditions, the path of least resistance, without any social conscience. I think anyone living in the Rust Belt should be able to take a look around them and see exactly what this yields. Unless, of course, they have been conditioned to think that MORE of this is what's needed..........

dmax99 03-13-2016 12:57 PM

Yeah,who can forget "Trickle down economics",raining piss down on the middle class.

Rajoo 03-13-2016 01:35 PM

He was a big con artist and now 'The Party of Reagan" has given us Trump and the GOP hates him. Trump is a better con artist and why hate him for carrying on the Reagan tradition?

Who can ever forget these memorable words of wisdom from Reagan.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...nFyNGur7pPFCAA

bobabode 03-13-2016 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whell (Post 306096)
Ah, the open-mindedness just abounds with the members of this forum.

Thanks for the first chuckle of the day, my blinkered friend :D

How's the weather up there?

Boreas 03-13-2016 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pio1980 (Post 306121)
Bill Fuckley, the epitome of Fair and Balanced. Did they get a room after that interview?

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

I particularly liked the way he fed "pre-answered" questions to Reagan.

Boreas 03-13-2016 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whell (Post 306096)
Ah, the open-mindedness just abounds with the members of this forum.

Open-mindedness isn't synonymous with gullibility.

"Trust but verify."

Boreas 03-13-2016 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow (Post 306137)
I lived overseas (in Germany) for most of Reagan's Presidency and, being a German speaker, got really tired of defending his idiocy to nearly everybody I met who realized I was American. Similarly, I was overseas a lot during Dubya's Presidency and got real tired of defending that moron too.

So, after Trump is elected, are you planning to tell Europeans that you're Australian or Canadian?

Serious question.

BlueStreak 03-13-2016 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boreas (Post 306152)
So, after Trump is elected, are you planning to tell Europeans that you're Australian or Canadian?

Serious question.

Really. Start honing your phony Canadian accent now, Pat.:p

Boreas 03-13-2016 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueStreak (Post 306159)
Really. Start honing your phony Canadian accent now, Pat.:p

Being Canadian means never having to say you're soaree. :D

BlueStreak 03-13-2016 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rajoo (Post 306147)
He was a big con artist and now 'The Party of Reagan" has given us Trump and the GOP hates him. Trump is a better con artist and why hate him for carrying on the Reagan tradition?

Who can ever forget these memorable words of wisdom from Reagan.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...nFyNGur7pPFCAA

Yes, and he of course came from the government, to help.;)

He also said, "If you want to kill the beast, stop feeding it.". Apparently, the "beast" he was referring to was our own working class. Thanks, Ron. You were a real pal.

finnbow 03-13-2016 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boreas (Post 306152)
So, after Trump is elected, are you planning to tell Europeans that you're Australian or Canadian?

Serious question.

Luckily, when I go to Germany, nobody thinks I'm American as I have no American accent when speaking German as a result of learning it as a kid. It always make for interesting conversation when I reveal to a German that I'm American. I ended up having to defend Reagan and Dubya while over there on multiple occasions just because of some silly patriotic notion of mine or to dispel some completely crazy misunderstanding of America and what makes it tick.

CarlV 03-13-2016 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueStreak (Post 306161)
Yes, and he of course came from the government, to help.;)

He also said, "If you want to kill the beast, stop feeding it.". Apparently, the "beast" he was referring to was our own working class. Thanks, Ron. You were a real pal.

I always wondered about these clowns stating how much they hate government but have chosen it as their life's path. :rolleyes:


Car

BlueStreak 03-13-2016 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlV (Post 306171)
I always wondered about these clowns stating how much they hate government but have chosen it as their life's path. :rolleyes:


Car

I love the Trump fans who want a president who is not a politician.....

Ummm........... What do you call someone who holds a political office, Sunshine?;)

Der!

CarlV 03-13-2016 05:10 PM

Michigan sure got their businessman Governor in Snyder and boy did he give them the business. Not much different from electing mediocre actors really.

Carl


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