Personal privacy v national security
 

Apple is resisting creating a back door for the iPhone which is a request from the FBI.




http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/16/us/san...r-phone-apple/

I think Apple should at least let the FBI see if there is information about the possibility of another terrorist link on that phone. Some of those people killed probably were Apple customers too.

Apple should remove the information and hand it over. If Apple has no employee they can trust do do it then they should let somebody who can do it. This is about innocent lives and not keeping next I-phone's features a secret.


Carl

They can't do that without cracking their own 'uncrackable' security. They actually may not be able to. But if they can, all the iphones will no longer be 'uncrackable.'

And then the government will get hacked (again) and all sorts of people will be in your phone.

Unless the FBI is blowing smoke, the iphone is holding up....

Once the back door is created and people are damaged by hacking and identity theft, will the government step up and make them whole again since it was their doing?

No they won't. I'm with Apple on this. If 30,000 deaths a year is the price of guns, the occasional terrorist attack is the price of privacy.

I think that "it's uncrackable" is total BS to make people think their phone is secure. I am sure there are people in Russia and Romania who could crack it. That is unless they are BSing the whole thing to begin with.


Carl

So it is also about marketing. :D

I would never in a million years think my cell is secure no matter who makes it. :)


Carl

The data is encrypted. The key is created in such a way that it is known to no one and not trackable to anything. It's held in what is called a 'secure enclave' (in the phone). What makes the secure enclave so secure, I know not. But apparently the FBI can't get into it....

Just because we don't teach our 10 year olds to code doesn't mean they don't. :p

Carl

Maybe the FBI should seek the help of the FSB.

Kinda sucks to think that we as a country are falling so far behind in educating our own that it may be their only option has any credibility, which it does.


Carl

Amen. The threat of terrorism is ridiculously overblown. Since 9/11 I have spent exactly zero time concerning myself over being killed by a terrorist. My chances of being struck by lightening are far far greater and I don't worry about that.

On the other hand the chances of having my identity stolen are pretty damned decent.

I think if you engineer the encryption you can unencrypt it.

That is a ridiculously old PC article in computer technology terms. iphone 6 security does not tie to the UID, doing so vastly decreases the key universe.

Here is a number: [secret]

Here is another number: 50241606

The second number is the first number, encrypted. It was encrypted by the ridiculously simple method of dividing the secret number by a constant, the 'key.' There, you know how the encryption was engineered. What is the secret number?

That was the first article I found in a fast 3 second search to show credibility to what I was trying to get across. It can be done. The odds for having your identity stolen are slim but always there.

+1, absolutely.


Carl

The phone in question belongs to the health department first of all. So having given the OK to retrieve the info case closed in my opinion.
Second on giving out the key, for the sake of argument what if there was info of a dirty bomb or other terrorist actions known to be on there? Do you want a delay or let it be protected?
If a court issues an order end of discussion! Courts have been requiring sensitive personal information for many years. This is all about Apple making more money selling a device to protect questionable activities.

From the info I have seen, you need a prime number in association with encryption. The number may have hundreds of digits and take months to obtain.



Barney

I'm with Apple on this. They do not have the capability to get the data off of the phone without making changes to the operating system that will allow the FBI to do a "brute force" attack on the phone (use every possible password combination without wiping the phone clean after 10 password attempts). It's an iPhone 5c with iOS 9 which means it has a 4 digit passcode (i.e., 9,999 possibilities). Once this change is made to the OS (or if the software becomes available outside of Apple), nobody's iPhone is secure at that point.

The government is asking Apple to undertake the programming effort to the OS which will both cost money to do and will also break Apple's promise to its customers about security of its phones. Besides, even if they do this, there are available apps that future terrorists can (and do) use to encrypt communications anyway.

Encryption....Key https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_%28cryptography%29

This is what the Government wants out of Apples source code be my guess. Even once inside the phone the info can still be encrypted from what I was told.


Barney

I'm just wondering what kind of info they think they can get from that phone that they can't get in other ways or don't already have.

This op-ed pretty well summarizes my view on it:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/19/op...p-the-fbi.html

I still do not understand why Apple cannot retrieve the information then hand it over. It isn't because they can't, and doing it that way they absolutely protect their product.


Carl

This is big advertisement for Apple.

Of course you don't.

Yes it is, and 100% pure bologna.


Carl

Fried?

Is that how Sheriff Arpaio serves it? :rolleyes:

Unless they are hiding something?



Privacy, court order? Legal, illegal actions by owners? I trust the Government on this one.

Point as I see it, anything on the phone needs to be found out. Like I stated the phone belonged to the company he worked for. Businesses as a rule read your emails, track sites visited and listen to your phone calls at work when on company machines.


Barney

The thing about iPhones is first you have to unlock it before making changes or being able to update it, or dilly dally with the software in any way. They can't change the software in these to prevent them from deleting after 10 attempts to get in unless you enter the correct passcode first. Apple says they made it so not even Apple can get in to ensure people's privacy. I'm not sure what Apple can do, but being an iPhone user it's nice to know that if I lose my phone without realizing it, nobody can use my apps or nose through my family pictures, contacts, etc.

If you got a job, you could eat 100% beef bologna too. :rolleyes:

Yawn, grow up sonny. I've been a self employed construction puke and business owner since you were in Pampers.:rolleyes:

I'm retired now and loving it, arthritis and all. No baloney here, it's carne asada when I eat beef :D

I don't think the FBI is expecting to win this fight. They've been around a long time and can afford to take a longer view. Losing this battle could well turn into a strategic win in that if something bad happens and iPhone encryption played a role, or can be made to be perceived as having done so, the FBI has an "I told you so" assault to open their next information access battle.

You'd have to eat that beef bologna to GET a job.

Well isn't this just marvelous. :eek:


It is even better than 80% of BART security cameras are dummy ones story.:rolleyes:


Carl

Carl,

I am new to the thread.

Your thought is the same as what has been rolling around in my head. Based on my limited understanding of the situation, the first thing that struck me as odd was that the FBI was reported as asking for a tool. That is materially different than asking for data.

That is my knee jerk assessment of the issue. The unspoken issue seems to be about how FBI's counsel phrased their request.

Yes, but as in post #39, the fix is there, the county even paid for it.
The county government that owned the iPhone in a high-profile legal battle between Apple Inc. and the Justice Department paid for but never installed a feature that would have allowed the FBI to easily and immediately unlock the phone as part of the terrorism investigation into the shootings that killed 14 people in San Bernardino, California.

And so much for it not being possible to retrieve info as Apple insists.

Carl