Um. Well. Yes.

Is this a serious question?

John

I live only a couple hundred or so from Biltmore. They have a winery there that markets it's wine all over the region. It's not bad wine. (But for a local winery nothing touches Virginias own Horton.) The house is unbeleiveable. I have to admit, I like those old castles. Which is really what they are. But I also know what those guys put others through so they could accrue such amazing wealth. No thanks.

Dave

Well, the way I see it, Pete, is that the whole idea behind a two party system is that somewhere between the opposing views is a "Happy medium" of sorts, a give and take kinda deal. Problem is, people have gotten hardheaded and decided that their way is the only way, and they seek an "all or nothing" scenario. This absolutely kills the spirit of negotiation and any hope that agreement will ever be reached.

In other words, the problem is arrogance and self-righteousness. Jackasses who think they have been ordained to rule by the Almighty himself, and that anyone who opposes them is obviously an agent of the "The Great Horned One"---Satan.:eek:

Does that help any?

Dave

I didn't realise we were talking about Hillary :p

Heck we're pretty close. Take any thorny issue, say immigration. It's been so demagogued by both sides - and is an emotional hotbutton - that when serious folks try to look at what's really happening, and attempt to design a system that reflects the interests of parties involved, it's screamed down by both sides.

Then there is the actual cut and dry issues like abortion where there really is a largely a or b choice.

What I mean is there are a number of issues that folks disagree on. And what happens, again both parties, is the other side says THEY'RE NOT BEING REASONABLE instead of understanding that intellegent folks can disagree.

Pete

Really? And who might be these intelligent folks you are talking about? Inquiring minds want to know.;)

Well I figure 3-1/2 here :)

Just trying to start an argument! Lolol.

Pete

I now know why we are in trouble. Last night we were watching the PBS show Nightly Business Report that follows the Newshour. Susie was interviewing some big shot economist (whose name escapes me) regarding Wall Street's panic over world debt. So they focused on Greece which is apparently about to declare banckruptcy. He kept repeating that we should be concerned because they were our biggest trading partner. Greece? I looked at my wife and wondered aloud "What planet is this jerk from?"

Maybe our biggest tradiing partner in the Ouzo market.

Kalamata Olives and Feta Cheese. The entire world economy would collapse with out them.

Dave

Still haven't answered this question, Pete.

Dave

Easy availability of credit (and prosperity)(and increased population). Home loans (any loans!) were way different. Look at the car payment.

And most are better off as well.

Simplistic and not complete - and I'm no expert :)

Pete

I recall the first car loan I ever received, back in Quebec. No hassle it was a small bank branch and the manager knew me, no stinking credit bureaus involved. As I paid off the loan the interest portion dropped because it was based on the outstanding balance. Now here car loans are like mortgage loans and the interest is constant - this is an improvement?:confused:

Really? Had nothing to do with "flipping" and the unrealistic rise in home values? In eight years my house went from being valued at $87k to $193k.
Did incomes rise to keep pace with that? Uh, no.

It was good for me 'cuz I owned two homes. So, I sold that one, and moved back into this one, and pocketed the difference. But the woman who bought that house went bankrupt trying to pay for it, and now it sits empty. Has been for the last two years.

The problem as I saw it in my area, was that the homes simply reached the point where people could no longer afford them. I started hearing a lot of people saying, "We'd like to move to a bigger home, but who in the hell can afford it?" Shortly after that, the homes stopped selling. We have one of the best unemployment rates in the country---so that's not it. The prosperity is there, the jobs are there. The things are just too damned expensive.

Regards,
Dave