No to both questions. I was brought up in a religeous family, went to Sunday school. I even went through a couple of weeks as a trainee teacher but truth to tell, I was more interested in the Vicker's daughter than anything else. As an aside, will someone please tell me why spellchecker thinks knickers is a reasonable substitute for Vicker's? Predictive text is one thing, but that's scary.

Probably because it wasn't looking for vicar or vicar's. Spell check doesn't work on phonetics but on letter patterns.

Regards,

D-Ray

Sunday school, odd thing is that my Bible is marked for perfect attendance. Never submiited my son to that, but a better father you won't find.

I was brought up Presby until I could make my own decisions. Married into a mildly corrosively Christian family (but not my wife) and took it upon myself to incessantly debate them about their beliefs. Took a couple of years to understand that religious belief is not open to rational discussion, at least everywhere except in scholarly circles so I gave it up with her family.

I am now not with institutional religious organizations. I shadow Albert Einstein's quest; he refered to "The Old One", as it refers to a cosmic consciousness, and is what I search now for understanding about universal unity. I had a cosmic experience once in '95. That is its own story, but it was a connection with the universe as a "unit".

Tyler

I had several "cosmic experience(s)" between 1979 and 1982, that might explain a few thi........................WHOA, WHAT THE HECK WAS THAT?!! Ooooo, it had horns and beady eyes!

Dave

Curiosity?
 

There's more than an argument, just a basic fact. I cannot remember who proved it, but I've read that matter cannot be created or destroyed, but it can be changed from one form to another (including energy). Sooner or later we're all going to die; probably one at a time but conceivably all at once. We know that physically what we're made of will change from one form to another, but it won't vanish.

What about the spirit, soul, whatever. Is there such a thing? As late as 1946 (try Google "measuring the weight of a soul") people were trying to prove whether or not the soul existed by placing a dieing man on an accurate balance and seeing if there was any change after he had died. If there was, it was so close to the tolerance of the apparatus that the result was not accepted as definitive but lets look at the way we are. The old saying is that no matter what the species, it's sole purpose is self preservation, continuity. "eat fuck and die" but if that's all it is, why bother doing it? It's of no consequence to individuals whether there's a next generation or not.

So if it's all about survival, why do anything not necessary? Some people spend their working lives designing and building beautiful structures that would appear to have no practical purpose; things that they know will not be completed in their lifetime. Others make paintings, others compose music. None of this would seem to have anything to do with survival of the species. If you argue that the existence of these artworks helps us to survive, where and why did need this come from?

If food and drink keep the body alive, I reckon appreciation of beauty is a survival mechanism for the spirit. I know this is clumsily worded but yes, I believe in an afterlife. A long time ago a girl I was in love with told me that if we cannot be together in this life, we will be in the next. Her family had given her a simple choice, him or your family. She had honor so really, it was no choice at all but a final question. If there is a next life and we're in it, would we be aware of the life that came before?

Some years back Dr. Wilder Penfield in Montreal was operating on a patient. Dr. Penfield is/was one of the world's pre-eminent brain surgeons. The patient's brain was exposed and Dr. Penfield was using a probe to ensure that he had the correct section of the brain. When he activated the probe the patient raised his arm. Now the patient was conscious - the brain having no feeling. Dr. Penfield asked if he felt that. The patient responded "My arm raised but I did not will it to do so."

Make what you will of that.

Energy is neither created nor destroyed. It merely changes form.

Dave

All of the people (And pets) I've lost over the years............I'd really like to see them again.

But, do I believe that there is a book, written by "God" that shows me how to get there? No. I believe those books were written by men. Men who seek to govern me by using my desire to be reunited with loved ones.....and the fear of a contrived infernal nether region to control me. That's not to say that some of these books don't contain some nice tips on how to be a decent human being, because they do.

Dave

I attended a few different Christian churches as a kid, I even played piano for the offerings. My husband is Catholic, but as he is from Mexico, it's a little different than the Catholicism practiced here in the US. I have taken my kids to different churches to expose them to the idea that there are so many options out there. I, myself, do not/will not identify myself as belonging to any sort of religious group. Nor will I identify myself as belonging to any political party. And for the same reason... which brings us back to the question, does your religious view influence your political views? DEFINITELY. If the popular figureheads in Christianity wanted to spin things in favor of the Democratic Party, they most certainly could. For whatever reason, wink wink, they spin it in favor of the GOP. I believe that belonging to either compromises your ability to reason and think for yourself. As soon as you sign up for one, you have to defend it and will begin to see things the way that your party leaders/religious leaders want you to see them. No, thank you, I think I'll look at all the information (religious and political) and choose for myself.

Hi Eva, and WELCOME!

Dave

Raised as an ultra conservative catholic. My parents were/are just plain nuts - REALLY!

I am a product of christian values and I do hold living righteous, virtuous and with charity in high esteem.

I give zero creedance to any organized group of people who lead a religion or religious institution.

I am a solid agnostic - I don't kow what is out there.

Does it affect my plotical beliefs? I cannot see how it couldn't. I do put the needs of the people over the needs of the corporations.

I am a socialist, and a bit of a buhdist type. Not the shave my head and pass out the daisies type though.

I like Thomas Jefferson's stance on religion and the seperation of church and state for sure.

"I give zero creedance to any organized group of people who lead a religion or religious institution."
"and a bit of a buhdist type."

I don't get it...?

Buddha was about a way of life. He did not advocate for a set of theological beliefs or heaven and hell. He did not worship a supreme being.

True, buddhism is considered an eastern religion by many folks. I don't follow it religiously. But I do think most of what I have read about the buddhist make sense.

Also, in my statement, I was trying to seperate the "leaders" of the churches from the people of the churches. These are two very different things.

Thomas Jefferson would not attent a church meeting or bible study if a minister, priest, monk, etc. was leading the group. However, he would go if it were just the people.

The problem is that all churches have gotten to the point where they exist simply to exist. Their main function appears to be passing the plate. That and sticking their fat noses into things that are simply none of their business.

Agreed Rob. A few years ago I heard that the loonie Moonie spoke to a number of churches in the DC area and convinced them that the Crucifix was actually a false bad thing somehow - they took them down. Why would they listen to him? Crazy.

LMAO that's killing me!

Pete

I was wondering if anyone would catch that and hopefully take it how it was meant.:D

mark

Have you read any of Thich Naht Hahn? Fascinating stuff, especially his work on finding common ground with Judeo-Christian philosophy.

Dave

Baptised and raised a Mormon until I was old enough to make the decission to stop going to church. (around 15-16).

I was encouraged to go to all my friends churches as a youth and see what was going on there for myself rather than speculate.

All I will say is a know many very good if not great Mormons(my father being one of the greatest and most selfless men I have known or known of). Far from what they are projected to be by media and speculation. I can't remember a single year of my young life (4-12 or so) when we did not have someone living in our home that was in need. Home was isolated Alaska and folks tended to look out for one another(even if you hated one another). I remeber when moving to Missouri how my parents had several Pentacotals over to the house to do laundry and have a meal as their own families had rejected them for their beliefs.

Like so many I find the business of religion to be sickening. It makes it easy to not attend and to point fingers.

In the past several years (mainly since my daughter was born and I remembered I did not have to be such a selfish prick) my religious and political views have changed greatly. I realize that neither organized religions nor politicians are that interested in my or the people of this worlds general well being and that it is incumbant upon ourselves to look out for each other.

So... to answer the question I do have faith and since I've come to understand that it is not found at a church or in one denomination or another it no longer clouds my political views.

The biggest difference between going to church and going to the country club is, when you go to church you're expected to stay halfway sober for an hour.

They're the same bunch, more or less. But I'm a Methodist, or at least they tell me I still am.

I've met worse people.

Now the snake kissers, well, they're a different kind of bird.

To be fair to them, they're only desperate for something to hold on to.

But bottom line, it's a social organization, not unlike Political Chat.

Chas

BTW, if you're eager to pass judgment on your fellow man, most likely you're only attempting not to pass judgment on yourself.

God told that to me while I was out fishing and getting drunk.

I ran into Becky on FaceBook, just the other day. She asked me if I remembered "Bible Camp". I said, "I sure do! Especially our mutual deflowering in front of the fireplace in the Fellowship Hall after the others had turned in for the night. Do you think the Good Lord was watching?"

See, this is how I view religion; As the Pastor snores and all the little fairytale believers dream of holding hands with angels and thinking clean thoughts....Perverts like Becky and I sneak off to bump uglies of the very spot where guitar strumming Bible thumpers sang songs about Jesus not twenty minutes prior.

Because, you see, you can wag your finger and furl your brow all you want----teenagers are horny little buggers. Even when the Good Lord is watching.

Dave

Born and raised Catholic. Was an alter boy for years and have spoken to priests in times of need as an adult.

As teenagers my brother and I would skip mass and shoot pool for an hour, then stop by the church to pick up a bulletin to satisfy mom that we had been to church.

I smoked a joint up in the balcony where the choir usually sits during mass once.

I'm an athiest now and my interest in religion is limited although I've spend some time studying many of them.

I do recognize that there are benign religions which can have a positive influence on the secular societies in which they exist by teaching love and forgiveness and there are also destructive religions that usually exist in non-secular societies and which can cross the line into politics and foster hatred and conflict.

Looks like we have a little in common, Mezz. Although, I have a little difficulty in making that leap into Atheism. I guess it's just a normal desire to see folks I've lost again, and a natural curiosity about a possible after life.

But, as for all of the Hokus Pokus and books of rules, written by MEN who profess to be agents of God? Sorry, I'm not bitin'. If I want to know what God thinks, I'll ask him myself.:p

Dave

Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=7Jrh_uuPmd0

Thanks much for the link, Painter. She seems very genuine. Is she really a nun? I dunno, there's just something about her delivery that would make me want to go to Catholic School, even though you know she is going to be strict, just not uptight.

Regards,

D-Ray

Loved the link Painter. Thanks.

Unfortunately...no.



http://archives.citypaper.net/articl....maripat.shtml

Ah black hearted protestant though I am I know about Saint Lawrence. Everytime Florence asks me how was dinner and I say Excellent, she says Thank You Saint Lawrence.

My Ma turned Baha'i when I was seven and indoctrinated me into her cult. I now believe that all religions are cults, some are just more successful than others, some are more benign than others, some are not so benign. Thankfully today I am not enthralled by any cult.

Faith in supernatural beings is out for me, it is simply wishful anthropomorphism to want to have a superbeing, a super human being, who governs the universe. A being whose qualities are all too human even though they are super human.

We created god in our image and that is pure vanity IMHO. I do disbelieve in such an anthropomorphic god but do not completely discount the possibility that some sort of thing exists although IMV it is impossible to say exactly what that thing is or what our relationship to it is. As soon as human beings start thinking about it, start using human concepts and words to describe it, they are anthropomorphizing and have in effect created a god in their own image.

Cheers

Lar

About as close to religion as I get is listening to "Pipe Dreams" and the Sunday morning "Heart and Voice" program on the Godless NPR.

I still love the music.

Dave

About that bit about us "being created in his image", given some of the other translation errors, or even simply the usage of English in King James time, could that not simple mean "created as he imagined we should look"?

As a GROSS generalization, this is a very American Indian thought process: except we believe God is everywhere and counts as "one" in the equation. :)

I figure one God who exists everywhere should be enough for anybody.

But there's no money in that.

Chas

I was raised without religion or spirituality. I've spent some time in my life having a relation to something, can't call it God in the typical sense. The closest i can come to explaining it is in the words of an old friend; "The universe loves symbolic gestures".

The theistic religious/spiritual view makes no sense to me beyond being the construct of man in an effort to eff the ineffable.

I think the non-theistic religions really are onto something. The concept of god is not necessary to a purposeful, virtuous life of service.

More wisdom from Sir Charles of Bugtussel. (I need the nodding head smiley here)

Regards,

D-Ray

Branch Dividian. I became a convert after Janet Reno burned all of those poor people & children to death.
Democrat = Nazi.

x10:)!!

B.S.pal, the sole blame of that fiasco rests on the shoulders of one Vernon Howell. This piece of crap, self-proclaimed prophet, lead those poor souls down the path they followed, all in the name of god. Spew all the shit about dems and libs you want, but I'll guarantee you, Vernon was no lib.

[QUOTE=Democrat = Nazi.[/QUOTE]

You're a fucking genius.

Excellent post. +1.

Dave