When does it stop?

[Brett A]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Wars are mostly started by old men and fought by young men, it is the sole remaining obscenity we have.

This is true. War is outdated; Antiquated thinking. It's a throwback to a time when the world seemed big enough to believe we could do something "over there" and not have it affect us "over here". I've got news. There is no "over there" anymore. It's all right here.

It seems, as a species, we are literally retarded in our development when it comes to war. Truth is, it takes a lot more intellegence, courage and bravery to get along with cultures who have different world-views than it it does to kill them. To choose creative solutions over destructive ones takes a lot of work and is rarely simple, easy, or free of compromise.

But I'm not fooling myself. We're never gong to get there. At least not without a big die-off. As George Carlin said in his most-excellent "Jammin' New York" show; "Pack your shit folks, we're goin' away"

My $0.02

[Twodogs]

Originally Posted by Brett A

This is true. War is outdated; Antiquated thinking. It's a throwback to a time when the world seemed big enough to believe we could do something "over there" and not have it affect us "over here". I've got news. There is no "over there" anymore. It's all right here.

It seems, as a species, we are literally retarded in our development when it comes to war. Truth is, it takes a lot more intellegence, courage and bravery to get along with cultures who have different world-views than it it does to kill them. To choose creative solutions over destructive ones takes a lot of work and is rarely simple, easy, or free of compromise.

But I'm not fooling myself. We're never gong to get there. At least not without a big die-off. As George Carlin said in his most-excellent "Jammin' New York" show; "Pack your shit folks, we're goin' away"

My $0.02

I can agree with most of this, but what do you do when a Foreign "people" come to our shores and start killing? I know America isn't innocent in everything, but I don't think it's always our fault either. When is the last time an American flew a loaded passenger jet through a building full of innocent people just going to work (say, in the name of Christianity) in any foreign land? If water-boarding people that would do these things, has helped in any small way to keep America safe, I say thank you to George Bush, and all involved. I ask again, what good will bringing this all up "now" do anyone?

[142EBC]

Originally Posted by Brett A

...It seems, as a species, we are literally retarded in our development when it comes to war. Truth is, it takes a lot more intellegence (SIC?), courage and bravery to get along with cultures who have different world-views than it it does to kill them. To choose creative solutions over destructive ones takes a lot of work and is rarely simple, easy, or free of compromise....

Sounds good, tell that to the Jihadis though. I do believe this country has enough checks and balances, left and right, warmongers and peaceniks to keep us from pulling some rash move like arbitrarily killing several thousand innocent civilians. I spent a year in the sand-box and I know that losers that do stupid stuff to civilians and detainees alike are the exception, not the rule. I also know that I had the responsibility to keep my Soldiers alive; if an insurgent definitely had information about an IED planted for my troops and I didn't do everything I could to get it out of him or her, for the sake of ideals, the parents/children/spouses/family/friends/etc. would deserve a shot at me for not doing my job. I believe EITs (PC for torture) should be used as a last resort, and only used if there is no doubt the information is there to be obtained. Our guys live, their guys live.
Those that want to release photos of EITs and those that abhor EITs, spend a few nights on the road around Baghdad; be there when the photos are released... step up to the plate!
After the war, there might be a productive use for publishing these photos; right now the only use for these photos is to incite violence against Americans.
War is not pretty, war is not fair. War is not sanitary, War sucks. And BTW, we TOOK the first punch. We had more objectives than WMDs when we went into Iraq.
If you think you have all the answers, look at the things the new President has stuck with that were going to be changed once he got in office. I think, to his credit, he saw things from a new perspective once he was privy to more info and decided the info he was basing his proposed ideas/changes upon was incomplete.
Just my 3 cents' worth.
Mike

[soundhound]

Originally Posted by Twodogs

First we had to release a bunch of CIA memos for some sort of BS witch-hunt, now the ACLU is suing to get pictures of "abused" captives released? Can anyone explain to me what good either of these acts will accomplish? Will the PC left ever be happy, as long as America is a world power? I just wish that every miserable asshat out there that hates America, would just freekin leave it.

since when does being in disagreement with the actions of my government mean that i hate America?

face facts. we tortured captives in Gitmo. oh yeah, we used "enhanced interrogation tactics". you can call a turd a rose, it'll still smell like shit.

two wrongs don't make a right. torture is wrong, regardless the reason(s) for it. those who authorized it should be punished.

[RichF]

For the record, I fully support "torture". That is all.

[Independent]

Originally Posted by RichF

For the record, I fully support "torture". That is all.

Even on American female soldiers captured by the enemy?

[RichF]

Originally Posted by Independent

Even on American female soldiers captured by the enemy?

C'mon man. Take another look at my avatar.

[merrylander]

I am in a difficult position, as a naturalized citizen I swore to honour and defend the Constitution and I do not give my word lightly. I do not subscribe to torture and we are a signatory to the Geneva Convention. I realize that various administrations have thrown the 4th and 6th Ammendments in the trash, what with no-knock warrents and wire taps, but I have spoken out against that many times and will continue to do so.

On the other hand I was not joking in another thread about use of the Cobalt bomb. I do not see any 'innocents' amongst those savages, the women become suicide bombers, and the children will grow up to be no different than their parents. Even among themselves they show hatred, Shia have hated Sunni for 700 years, that is all their 'religion' teaches -hate.

Some argue that this is not what the Q'uran teaches but where were their voices when they hung a young woman because she was raped. Where were the voices on 9/11, Hamas was dancing in the streets.

Sorry, but they are capable of any vile act and the world would be a better place without them.

[soundhound]

Originally Posted by merrylander

I do not see any 'innocents' amongst those savages....Some argue that this is not what the Q'uran teaches....Sorry, but they are capable of any vile act and the world would be a better place without them.

dude.....

[merrylander]

Ha, I see mention of the 'tea party' now there was a scam. The settlers asked the homeland to send troops to fight the indians, then balked at paying the bill.

Mind you I do agree that the general they sent would have had difficulty locating his gluteous maximus with both hands and a flashlight.