Canadian Truckers "Freedom Convoy"

[mpholland]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Right. Both parties equally bad. No point in preferring one over the other. You are in this way excusing the party trying to suppress voters and legalize the stealing of elections, and on this basis can excuse them of anything. But ho-hum.

You make it sound like unaffiliated is synonymous with apathetic. I could reserve apathy to those who are in power and refuse to do their job. I still vote and make my voice heard.

[RickeyM]

Originally Posted by RickeyM

...Tell me if I'm wrong but weren't these same people the ones throwing fits when BLM protesters filed onto roadways blocking traffic? Some Republican politician, I forget where, even said they wouldn't prosecute anyone who happened to hit people in the roadway with their vehicles.
On a positive note, some residents of Ottawa have had enough and begun blocking vehicles attempting to join the occupiers. Blockading the blockaders, sweet.

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Oklahoma and Florida passed laws shielding drivers who hit protestors. https://slate.com/business/2021/04/d...publicans.html

Yeah, those are the ones. Open season on brown people in the streets.

Meanwhile, north of the border: YANKEE GO HOME!

“Something Popped Yesterday”

“Ottawans are just fed up. We’re done. I’ll tell you, something popped yesterday,” said Micah Clark, who has lived in Ottawa for 16 years. “We’re just trying to live our lives, and our city’s been turned into a punching bag by a bunch of people who didn’t do real well in civics class.”

Sunday’s pushback comes after a large counterprotest gathered Saturday in the Glebe, a neighborhood south of downtown, urging the trucker convoy to leave the city. Residents are expecting more demonstrations in the coming days designed to obstruct movement and make the lives of protesters less comfortable.

I fully expect the instigators to try such "Convoys" in the US. Plenty of Reich-Wing dark money out there to sponsor them. I also expect people who've seen what this noisy minority have done in Canada to take steps to thwart it here. A few of those big dump trucks in key intersections or blocking certain highway off ramps should be able to have the necessary effect. Oh they may get away with it out in West Bumfuck but after what happened Jan 6th, 2021 I don't think the authorities in DC will just roll over like the authorities did in Canada.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by mpholland

You make it sound like unaffiliated is synonymous with apathetic. I could reserve apathy to those who are in power and refuse to do their job. I still vote and make my voice heard.

I always find the 'they both do it' argument a reality distortion, sort of like saying both Nazis and AOC are bad for America, as if AOC is actually evil. (Maybe you disagree, but I think AOC is manifestly a decent person, rather more articulate and intelligent than the average for the US Congress.)

Even the thing that triggered this exchange, the matter of protestors blocking highways, does not seem equivalent to me.The support for the 'Convoy Protest' by what now passes for mainline conservatism (that is, the Trump GOP and it's media allies) is far more pervasive and unqualified than left wing support has been for unlawful acts by Occupy Wall Street, or BLM roadblocks.

[mpholland]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

I always find the 'they both do it' argument a reality distortion, sort of like saying both Nazis and AOC are bad for America, as if AOC is actually evil. (Maybe you disagree, but I think AOC is manifestly a decent person, rather more articulate and intelligent than the average for the US Congress.)

Even the thing that triggered this exchange, the matter of protestors blocking highways, does not seem equivalent to me.The support for the 'Convoy Protest' by what now passes for mainline conservatism (that is, the Trump GOP and it's media allies) is far more pervasive and unqualified than left wing support has been for unlawful acts by Occupy Wall Street, or BLM roadblocks.

In other words, they did it worse instead of they did it first? So two wrongs don't make a right but a small wrong and a great one do?

I fail to see your issue with reality distortions. The majority of discussions on this site are based on reality distortions. Some opinion is fact, many facts are opinions. Most facts are suspect due to context of source. I am still a right leaning centrist. There are good democrats and good republicans. If either party were completely bad they wouldn't be able to get half the nation to vote for them. At some point there will be a third party that grabs the centrist vote. Since unaffiliated is the biggest "party" in the country they wouldn't need a whole lot of votes from the left or right. If the democrats are so pro common man why don't they institute a comparable tax structure to pre-Reagan times and make the rich pay for the last couple wars that they created. The biggest reality distortion out there is that the countries problems are right vs. left. The problem is rich vs poor. This facade that the left is for the common man and the right is for the rich is a joke. The rich on both sides are who is in power and they don't give a shit about the common man unless it is given to let them sling it at each other. The income disparity issue is the biggest problem this nation has and the democrats taking from the ever shrinking middle class to give to the poor is exacerbating the problem just as much as the right and their tax cuts for the rich.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by mpholland

In other words, they did it worse instead of they did it first? So two wrongs don't make a right but a small wrong and a great one do?

I fail to see your issue with reality distortions. The majority of discussions on this site are based on reality distortions. Some opinion is fact, many facts are opinions. Most facts are suspect due to context of source. I am still a right leaning centrist. There are good democrats and good republicans. If either party were completely bad they wouldn't be able to get half the nation to vote for them. At some point there will be a third party that grabs the centrist vote. Since unaffiliated is the biggest "party" in the country they wouldn't need a whole lot of votes from the left or right. If the democrats are so pro common man why don't they institute a comparable tax structure to pre-Reagan times and make the rich pay for the last couple wars that they created. The biggest reality distortion out there is that the countries problems are right vs. left. The problem is rich vs poor. This facade that the left is for the common man and the right is for the rich is a joke. The rich on both sides are who is in power and they don't give a shit about the common man unless it is given to let them sling it at each other. The income disparity issue is the biggest problem this nation has and the democrats taking from the ever shrinking middle class to give to the poor is exacerbating the problem just as much as the right and their tax cuts for the rich.

I am certainly all for a pre-Reagan progressive tax structure. indeed, I'm for a pre-Kennedy progressive tax structure. But why do you say the Democrats take from the ever-shrinking middle-class? I know of no tax increases targeting the middle, though I know of plenty of conservative proposals for same (eg, the now-forgotten 'flat tax' idea). I also think the 'to give to the poor' part is anti-poor resentment at work, given that much more goes to the military-industrial feeding trough, and to out-and-out corporate welfare.

You also should recognize that getting anything progressive through the current congress is close to impossible. So blaming the Democrats for not doing so now isn't just fair. You can make a case for the first part of the Obama administration though. The problem was that Obama was smart enough to know there might be a be reactionary movement in response to his presidency, and he walked on eggs trying not to provoke it. Didn't work.

[mpholland]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

I am certainly all for a pre-Reagan progressive tax structure. indeed, I'm for a pre-Kennedy progressive tax structure. But why do you say the Democrats take from the ever-shrinking middle-class? I know of no tax increases targeting the middle, though I know of plenty of conservative proposals for same (eg, the now-forgotten 'flat tax' idea). I also think the 'to give to the poor' part is anti-poor resentment at work, given that much more goes to the military-industrial feeding trough, and to out-and-out corporate welfare.

You also should recognize that getting anything progressive through the current congress is close to impossible. So blaming the Democrats for not doing so now isn't just fair. You can make a case for the first part of the Obama administration though. The problem was that Obama was smart enough to know there might be a be reactionary movement in response to his presidency, and he walked on eggs trying not to provoke it. Didn't work.

Give to the poor was an oversimplification to avoid long winded narrative. In my eyes most democratic campaign platforms are social promises that are guaranteed to be paid for by the rich, in other words Robin Hood promises, but then not have what it takes to get it from the rich. When money gets spent and the rich and powerful refuse to pay for it, who do you think pays the bill? It may not be direct taxation, but it will be paid by someone. Nothing is free. My annual taxes seem to keep going up, yet the very wealthy seem to keep paying less. If republicans can get tax rates lowered, democrat control should be able to get them raised. If Manchin and other moderates can't get on board with that, then they should not be considered democrats. Not to mention the democratic party seems to pick pretty unlikely candidates for election. Sanders was probably the most promising candidate they had since Bill Clinton and look what they did to him. No thanks, I'll stay unaffiliated. Speaking of Obama, I think a marginal tax increase should have been equal to and possibly more important than the ACA. Reactionary measures are part of politics. Worrying about them are the reason the same people are still in office and the reason nothing is getting accomplished.