Chinese Refrain

[Combwork]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

I think we missing the big picture here: in recent memory China was starving nation.

True, but as far as the workers were concerned, most capitalist countries (including Russia before and after the revolution) were starving nations at some time or other.

True. As you say in recent times China was a starving nation and by our standards a lot of their people still are. But just as the 19th century English sweatshops attracted workers from even more miserable lives in the country, the industrial development that followed was responsible for "Made in Britain " becoming a mark of quality.

Things change, markets grow. People get rich and assume that what they have they always will have; that the party goes on forever but it doesn't.

I don't want to sound too 'Cosmic Man' but what goes around comes around; maybe it's China's time at the head of the table.

[Dondilion]

I believe the Chinese have done remarkably well since and inspite of the the Mao disasters. I once thought that hybrid system which they adopted would fail miserably. They proved me wrong in such a short span of time. What has occurred is an ever expanding, vibrant middle class. Compare this to Africa with its myriad coups, despots and pervasive poverty, India with its rigid class system, and Russia with gangsters at every intersection, China, I repeat has done well.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Combwork

True, but as far as the workers were concerned, most capitalist countries (including Russia before and after the revolution) were starving nations at some time or other.

True. As you say in recent times China was a starving nation and by our standards a lot of their people still are. But just as the 19th century English sweatshops attracted workers from even more miserable lives in the country, the industrial development that followed was responsible for "Made in Britain " becoming a mark of quality.

Things change, markets grow. People get rich and assume that what they have they always will have; that the party goes on forever but it doesn't.

I don't want to sound too 'Cosmic Man' but what goes around comes around; maybe it's China's time at the head of the table.

Could be.

Dave

[Bigerik]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

I believe the Chinese have done remarkably well since and inspite of the the Mao disasters. I once thought that hybrid system which they adopted would fail miserably. They proved me wrong in such a short span of time. What has occurred is an ever expanding, vibrant middle class. Compare this to Africa with its myriad coups, despots and pervasive poverty, India with its rigid class system, and Russia with gangsters at every intersections, China, I repeat has done well.

While I don't take much away from China in regards to a lot of what they have done, they have lived through a very unique historical oddity. Do we know of another time where a country has been willing to bankrupt itself to build up another one? Where one country has totally put it's own economic interests aside in a completely unprecedented show of avarice? All in the name of being able to get the cheapest, disposable DVD player.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by Bigerik

Do we know of another time where a country has been willing to bankrupt itself to build up another one? Where one country has totally put it's own economic interests aside in a completely unprecedented show of avarice? All in the name of being able to get the cheapest, disposable DVD player.

In reality the people who control said country see themselves as internationalists.

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

I believe the Chinese have done remarkably well since and inspite of the the Mao disasters. I once thought that hybrid system which they adopted would fail miserably. They proved me wrong in such a short span of time. What has occurred is an ever expanding, vibrant middle class. Compare this to Africa with its myriad coups, despots and pervasive poverty, India with its rigid class system, and Russia with gangsters at every intersection, China, I repeat has done well.

Really? I would say ask the girls who worked at Foxconn, except they are dead, jumping from fifth floor balconies does tend to be fatal.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Really? I would say ask the girls who worked at Foxconn, except they are dead, jumping from fifth floor balconies does tend to be fatal.

Any transformation, on such a large scale, must incur serious growing pains. The history of our trade unions is instructive. For a once totally communist state, to create in a couple of years, such a large middle class who has access to overseas travel, is noteworthy.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

Any transformation, on such a large scale, must incur serious growing pains. The history of our trade unions is instructive. For a once totally communist state, to create in a couple of years, such a large middle class who has access to overseas travel, is noteworthy.

It would be hard to make an argument that the Chinese are far behind Massey Energy when it comes to workers rights/safety (or even BP).

[piece-itpete]

I disagree. The construction workers over there are almost slaves.

Heck just a coupla years ago a school blew up because the teachers were having the students make fireworks for extra income - for the teachers.

Pete

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

I disagree. The construction workers over there are almost slaves.

Heck just a coupla years ago a school blew up because the teachers were having the students make fireworks for extra income - for the teachers.

Pete

You're right, but Dondilion has a point. We seem to be expecting them to advance from an agrarian society to a First World industrial power in a couple of decades. It took us the better part of a century and two World Wars to get there.

I have a friend I swim with that goes to Shanghai every month on business for the past decade or more. He's says the transformation is simply amazing.