White Victimhood......and here it is!

[whell]

This thread is hilarious. It begins with a misattribution of yours truly, and then descends from there.

"Whell began bleating and babbling how Affirmative Action and the Civil Rights movement was discriminatory against white people?"

This is really not what I said.

Have you ever written and had to administer a corporate affirmative action plan? Have you ever experienced an audit of your business by the OFCCP? I have. It's a fascinating and educational process.

First, let's define our terms:

Affirmative Action (AA): For federal contractors and subcontractors, affirmative action must be taken by covered employers to recruit and advance qualified minorities, women, persons with disabilities, and covered veterans. Affirmative actions include training programs, outreach efforts, and other positive steps. These procedures should be incorporated into the company's written personnel policies. Employers with written affirmative action programs must implement them, keep them on file and update them annually.

Affirmative Action Plan (AAP): a written document or “program” outlining the steps a company has taken and will take to ensure equal employment opportunity. A written affirmative action plan - for many covered employers it's a document that can reach 100 pages or more - sample can be seen here: https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/fil...8_Contr508.pdf

In short, an AAP is a document that describes an employer's workforce by race, gender and other protected classes, identifies areas within the workforce where protected classes of individuals are underrepresented, and identifies specific steps the employer will take to address areas of underrepresentation. This includes setting goals to increase the representation of protected classes in areas of the workforce that are underrepresented.

The description sounds benign enough. In practice, OFCCP enforcement of an employer's AAP creates economic penalties for the employer - the potential loss of their government contracts. But hey, if a company wants to be in the world of providing products or services to the gov't, they better understand the potential risks.

In practice, it comes down to this: the requirement to fill jobs, particularly in areas of the business that are under-represented, based on something other than the requirements of the job. In practice, when two applicants possess equivalent knowledge, skills, and abilities (KSAs), and the job these applicants are applying for exists in a part of the organization that is identified as under-represented for protected classes, the employer may need to select the applicant in the protected class to help meet the organization's AA goals. Where companies are usually best served by making employment decisions based on job-related KSAs, a non-job-related factor is introduced into the selection process.

Another way to say this: an employer is shown to systematically make employment decisions on something other than KSAs face litigation risk under a host of Federal, State, and local government anti-discrimination statutes. An employer with an AAP is actually encouraged to make such decisions based on something other than KSAs if it does so to me certain social goals.

You mentioned your experience with a classmate who went to Ohio State who happened to be white. However, one of the recent college admissions cases decided by SCOTUS - the Harvard Case - actually showed how Asian students faced disparate treatment by Harvard's admissions "process". If you're interested in some background on that case, complete with some rather unsavory details of Harvard's admissions, you might find this interesting: https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-c...ve-action-case. Example:

Judge Burroughs’s opinion also addressed the striking fact that, when sending recruitment letters to potential applicants in “Sparse Country” (underrepresented states in the Harvard applicant pool), Harvard used an SAT score cutoff of 1310 for white students, 1350 for Asian American females, and 1380 for Asian American males. There were gasps in the courtroom when this evidence was revealed at trial.

The bottom line: the act of discrimination in employment or admissions is an essential part of the process: an employer, for example, must select one candidate from among many, and the act of making this selection discriminates against those not selected. When such discrimination is done based on elements that are unrelated to success or failure in employment or admissions, it's wrong.

To your point, does AA discriminate against white people? In some cases, sure it does. Witness a case like Bakke where the University of CA was "reserving seats" for applicants in protected classes. As demonstrated in the Harvard case, it can also discriminate against members of the protected classes that it was created to assist.

In practice, an AAP asks an admissions officer or employer to use something other than an applicant's objective qualifications to make an admissions or employment decision. Specifically, if two applicants are otherwise equal, the AAP would ask that a "preference" for the applicant in a protected class help make the selection decision. If discrimination based on unrelated factors is objectively wrong, doing so under an AAP doesn't make it less wrong (two wrongs don't make it right).

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by whell

This thread is hilarious. It begins with a misattribution of yours truly, and then descends from there.

"Whell began bleating and babbling how Affirmative Action and the Civil Rights movement was discriminatory against white people?"

This is really not what I said.

Have you ever written and had to administer a corporate affirmative action plan? Have you ever experienced an audit of your business by the OFCCP? I have. It's a fascinating and educational process.

First, let's define our terms:

Affirmative Action (AA): For federal contractors and subcontractors, affirmative action must be taken by covered employers to recruit and advance qualified minorities, women, persons with disabilities, and covered veterans. Affirmative actions include training programs, outreach efforts, and other positive steps. These procedures should be incorporated into the company's written personnel policies. Employers with written affirmative action programs must implement them, keep them on file and update them annually.

Affirmative Action Plan (AAP): a written document or “program” outlining the steps a company has taken and will take to ensure equal employment opportunity. A written affirmative action plan - for many covered employers it's a document that can reach 100 pages or more - sample can be seen here: https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/fil...8_Contr508.pdf

In short, an AAP is a document that describes an employer's workforce by race, gender and other protected classes, identifies areas within the workforce where protected classes of individuals are underrepresented, and identifies specific steps the employer will take to address areas of underrepresentation. This includes setting goals to increase the representation of protected classes in areas of the workforce that are underrepresented.

The description sounds benign enough. In practice, OFCCP enforcement of an employer's AAP creates economic penalties for the employer - the potential loss of their government contracts. But hey, if a company wants to be in the world of providing products or services to the gov't, they better understand the potential risks.

In practice, it comes down to this: the requirement to fill jobs, particularly in areas of the business that are under-represented, based on something other than the requirements of the job. In practice, when two applicants possess equivalent knowledge, skills, and abilities (KSAs), and the job these applicants are applying for exists in a part of the organization that is identified as under-represented for protected classes, the employer may need to select the applicant in the protected class to help meet the organization's AA goals. Where companies are usually best served by making employment decisions based on job-related KSAs, a non-job-related factor is introduced into the selection process.

Another way to say this: an employer is shown to systematically make employment decisions on something other than KSAs face litigation risk under a host of Federal, State, and local government anti-discrimination statutes. An employer with an AAP is actually encouraged to make such decisions based on something other than KSAs if it does so to me certain social goals.

You mentioned your experience with a classmate who went to Ohio State who happened to be white. However, one of the recent college admissions cases decided by SCOTUS - the Harvard Case - actually showed how Asian students faced disparate treatment by Harvard's admissions "process". If you're interested in some background on that case, complete with some rather unsavory details of Harvard's admissions, you might find this interesting: https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-c...ve-action-case. Example:

Judge Burroughs’s opinion also addressed the striking fact that, when sending recruitment letters to potential applicants in “Sparse Country” (underrepresented states in the Harvard applicant pool), Harvard used an SAT score cutoff of 1310 for white students, 1350 for Asian American females, and 1380 for Asian American males. There were gasps in the courtroom when this evidence was revealed at trial.

The bottom line: the act of discrimination in employment or admissions is an essential part of the process: an employer, for example, must select one candidate from among many, and the act of making this selection discriminates against those not selected. When such discrimination is done based on elements that are unrelated to success or failure in employment or admissions, it's wrong.

To your point, does AA discriminate against white people? In some cases, sure it does. Witness a case like Bakke where the University of CA was "reserving seats" for applicants in protected classes. As demonstrated in the Harvard case, it can also discriminate against members of the protected classes that it was created to assist.

In practice, an AAP asks an admissions officer or employer to use something other than an applicant's objective qualifications to make an admissions or employment decision. Specifically, if two applicants are otherwise equal, the AAP would ask that a "preference" for the applicant in a protected class help make the selection decision. If discrimination based on unrelated factors is objectively wrong, doing so under an AAP doesn't make it less wrong (two wrongs don't make it right).

What a brainfucked post. There's way more to Dave's OP and the follow up posts than just Affirmative Action, you shitwit. Why have you limited your stupid retort to providing nothing but whining about Affirmative Action. Give it a fucking rest. White supremacist victim roleplaying bullshit goes way beyond Affirmative action. Whining about public school curriculum. Whining about access to public restrooms. Whining about every liberal being a pedophile groomer. Whining about who's fucking who in the privacy of their own bedrooms. Whining about women who are demanding control over their own bodies. Whining about "Seasons Greetings". Whining about taking your war weapons away. Whining because somebody with dark skin or somebody wearing a hijab or somebody speaking Spanish or anybody but another white supremacist is in front of you in line for foodstamps...in front of you in line for any fucking thing. WHINING ABOUT FUCKING EVERYTHING.

When the real deal is that there is one primary reason why you and your ilk continue to genuflect at the feet of Trump...it's because you're white supremacist hater bigots.

You're fuckwitted bigots...all you do is hate all the same people that Trump hates.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

What a brainfucked post. There's way more to Dave's OP and the follow up posts than just Affirmative Action, you shitwit. Why have you limited your stupid retort to providing nothing but whining about Affirmative Action. Give it a fucking rest. White supremacist victim roleplaying bullshit goes way beyond Affirmative action. Whining about public school curriculum. Whining about access to public restrooms. Whining about every liberal being a pedophile groomer. Whining about who's fucking who in the privacy of their own bedrooms. Whining about women who are demanding control over their own bodies. Whining about "Seasons Greetings". Whining about taking your war weapons away. Whining because somebody with dark skin or somebody wearing a hijab or somebody speaking Spanish or anybody but another white supremacist is in front of you in line for foodstamps...in front of you in line for any fucking thing. WHINING ABOUT FUCKING EVERYTHING.

When the real deal is that there is one primary reason why you and your ilk continue to genuflect at the feet of Trump...it's because you're white supremacist hater bigots.

You're fuckwitted bigots...all you do is hate all the same people that Trump hates.

A coworker was telling me all about his hatred for anything connected to the government and the social safety net. I reminded him that he and I are roughly the same age. "What are you getting at, Dave.?" 'If I see you ahead of me in line to sign up for Medicare, Ray......call the cops.'

They just don't get it at all.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by whell

This thread is hilarious. It begins with a misattribution of yours truly, and then descends from there.

"Whell began bleating and babbling how Affirmative Action and the Civil Rights movement was discriminatory against white people?"

This is really not what I said.

Have you ever written and had to administer a corporate affirmative action plan? Have you ever experienced an audit of your business by the OFCCP? I have. It's a fascinating and educational process.

First, let's define our terms:

Affirmative Action (AA): For federal contractors and subcontractors, affirmative action must be taken by covered employers to recruit and advance qualified minorities, women, persons with disabilities, and covered veterans. Affirmative actions include training programs, outreach efforts, and other positive steps. These procedures should be incorporated into the company's written personnel policies. Employers with written affirmative action programs must implement them, keep them on file and update them annually.

Affirmative Action Plan (AAP): a written document or “program” outlining the steps a company has taken and will take to ensure equal employment opportunity. A written affirmative action plan - for many covered employers it's a document that can reach 100 pages or more - sample can be seen here: https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/fil...8_Contr508.pdf

In short, an AAP is a document that describes an employer's workforce by race, gender and other protected classes, identifies areas within the workforce where protected classes of individuals are underrepresented, and identifies specific steps the employer will take to address areas of underrepresentation. This includes setting goals to increase the representation of protected classes in areas of the workforce that are underrepresented.

The description sounds benign enough. In practice, OFCCP enforcement of an employer's AAP creates economic penalties for the employer - the potential loss of their government contracts. But hey, if a company wants to be in the world of providing products or services to the gov't, they better understand the potential risks.

In practice, it comes down to this: the requirement to fill jobs, particularly in areas of the business that are under-represented, based on something other than the requirements of the job. In practice, when two applicants possess equivalent knowledge, skills, and abilities (KSAs), and the job these applicants are applying for exists in a part of the organization that is identified as under-represented for protected classes, the employer may need to select the applicant in the protected class to help meet the organization's AA goals. Where companies are usually best served by making employment decisions based on job-related KSAs, a non-job-related factor is introduced into the selection process.

Another way to say this: an employer is shown to systematically make employment decisions on something other than KSAs face litigation risk under a host of Federal, State, and local government anti-discrimination statutes. An employer with an AAP is actually encouraged to make such decisions based on something other than KSAs if it does so to me certain social goals.

You mentioned your experience with a classmate who went to Ohio State who happened to be white. However, one of the recent college admissions cases decided by SCOTUS - the Harvard Case - actually showed how Asian students faced disparate treatment by Harvard's admissions "process". If you're interested in some background on that case, complete with some rather unsavory details of Harvard's admissions, you might find this interesting: https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-c...ve-action-case. Example:

Judge Burroughs’s opinion also addressed the striking fact that, when sending recruitment letters to potential applicants in “Sparse Country” (underrepresented states in the Harvard applicant pool), Harvard used an SAT score cutoff of 1310 for white students, 1350 for Asian American females, and 1380 for Asian American males. There were gasps in the courtroom when this evidence was revealed at trial.

The bottom line: the act of discrimination in employment or admissions is an essential part of the process: an employer, for example, must select one candidate from among many, and the act of making this selection discriminates against those not selected. When such discrimination is done based on elements that are unrelated to success or failure in employment or admissions, it's wrong.

To your point, does AA discriminate against white people? In some cases, sure it does. Witness a case like Bakke where the University of CA was "reserving seats" for applicants in protected classes. As demonstrated in the Harvard case, it can also discriminate against members of the protected classes that it was created to assist.

In practice, an AAP asks an admissions officer or employer to use something other than an applicant's objective qualifications to make an admissions or employment decision. Specifically, if two applicants are otherwise equal, the AAP would ask that a "preference" for the applicant in a protected class help make the selection decision. If discrimination based on unrelated factors is objectively wrong, doing so under an AAP doesn't make it less wrong (two wrongs don't make it right).

Your complete lack of self awareness is both impressive and sad.

Have a great day.

[RickeyM]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Your complete lack of self awareness is both impressive and sad.

Stupendous I'd say. It allows him to post what he does.

[Ike Bana]

And white victimization is what Jason Aldean's "Try That In A Small Town" is all about. Us small town patriotic white Americans are not going to put up with you BLM'S/homo/trans/baby killers trying to take our white rights and white freedoms and white supremacy and our white country from us.

[finnbow]

The MAGA persecution complex - the vast array of outlets in the right-wing media ecosystem that incentivizes GOP lawmakers to pander to conservative victimization and grievance. It’s feasting on so many claims of persecution that it’s essentially eating itself to death.

At last weeks hearing, Republicans alleged that the FBI investigated conservative parents at school board meetings. (That’s entirely baseless.) They insisted FBI Director Christopher A. Wray, a registered Republican, personally sicced the FBI on conservatives. (Wray called this insane). They claimed the FBI has eagerly persecuted Trump. (The FBI has actually been rule-bound and cautious.) They railed that FBI plants incited the Jan. 6, 2021, attack. (The central evidence of this has collapsed.)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...bi-trump-maga/

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by finnbow

The MAGA persecution complex - the vast array of outlets in the right-wing media ecosystem that incentivizes GOP lawmakers to pander to conservative victimization and grievance. It’s feasting on so many claims of persecution that it’s essentially eating itself to death.

At last weeks hearing, Republicans alleged that the FBI investigated conservative parents at school board meetings. (That’s entirely baseless.) They insisted FBI Director Christopher A. Wray, a registered Republican, personally sicced the FBI on conservatives. (Wray called this insane). They claimed the FBI has eagerly persecuted Trump. (The FBI has actually been rule-bound and cautious.) They railed that FBI plants incited the Jan. 6, 2021, attack. (The central evidence of this has collapsed.)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...bi-trump-maga/

"If God be with us, who dare oppose us?"---- Kind of sets the stage for 'We're always good and anyone who gets in our way is evil.' The Christian Conservative movement in a nutshell. So, of course the FBI, DOJ, "Demoncrats" are all corrupt and evil because they don't give free rein and fealty to these people and their King Donnie Bonespurs.

Also; I think all of this obsession with Pedophiles is revenge for Liberals going after "pedophile Priests", scumbag sex predator preachers like Warren Jeffs and David Koresh in the 1990s. "Men of God" simply don't go around abusing women and children, even when they do, just as Ferrari driving mansion dweller Joel Osteen isn't a money grubbing Charlatan, even though he obviously is. We're just jealous of his wealth. LMAO!

[Rajoo]

Would the real pedophiles please stand up? The irony of Republicans calling Democrats pro-pedophilia

If conservatives are going to smear Democrats as “groomer” and “pro-pedophilia” and pose as the nation’s protector of children, it’s certainly fair to bring up this history in retort.

Well worth reading imo.

https://observer.necc.mass.edu/blog/...ro-pedophilia/

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Rajoo

Would the real pedophiles please stand up? The irony of Republicans calling Democrats pro-pedophilia



Well worth reading imo.

https://observer.necc.mass.edu/blog/...ro-pedophilia/

Accuse your enemy of what you are doing yourself, as you are doing it to create confusion.

- Karl Marx