Cuba and the Elephants

[bobabode]

Julio I'm with Dave in respect to Cuban self determination. It must come from within Cuba. The days of interventionism hopefully have been relegated to the past in regards to any of our neighbors. We need to pay attention to the tragic lessons and misguided attempts of instilling democracy in Cuba, Nicaragua, Colombia, Argentina also lately Afghanistan, Iraq ad inf.

In every case the forces behind these excursions invariably get corrupted by the Bautistas and Samozas not to mention United Fruit & Exxon (just a couple examples.) i'm of the mind that warriors should exclude themselves from governing in any shape or form.

I hope that most Americans get this, whether you're a Cuban American or if you cling to a refugee mindset and still call yourself a Cuban even though born in the States and wish to overthrow the the Cuban government- do it with your own efforts (blood and money).I'm just guessing but I think that this is what Dave is getting at.

Your claim as to the superior monetary contribution that the Cubans have made ("internal revenue") is mystifying to me.
Do you mean Cuban Americans taxes?or are you claiming to be the pre eminent job creators/revenue creators or what?

The only Corp we should be sending anywhere is the Peace Corp. Not our Navy, Army or Air Force - those are for our protection when attacked. Call it neo isolationism if you will. I prefer to think of it as being realistic with an eye towards history. This grand experiment is doomed if we continue down the imperial path, that's just my opinion.

Nice story about The Ladies of Havana but could there have been just a little motivation of animosity towards the British in this? The Brits had taken Jamaica and many other Spanish Crown possessions in that era. Not to mention the pirates (privateers) whom had taken far more silver than the amount offered up to George Washington. I feel that you may be over romantizing their motivations.

I do say Viva Cuba and I'm muy sympatico but we shouldn't interfere as a nation with any peoples self determination except our own.

[BlueStreak]

Thanks for stating this better than I had, Bob.

You're right.

I'm tired of watching flag draped coffins, busted up bodies and damaged minds coming home----after fighting someone elses battle. I've been watching it my entire life, since the Vietnam era. What's worse is I think too many people have come to expect this of us. They simply tolerate tyranny for decades waiting for us to do something about it. And that needs to stop. It's not good for them or us.

Having said that, I am not opposed to assisting in other ways when possible. I just draw the line at sending our young people to do the dirty work unless it is absolutely necessary. (And I'm talking about things on the order of mass genocide or overwhelming armed invasion upon an ally.)

Dave

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Thanks for stating this better than I had, Bob.

You're right.

I'm tired of watching flag draped coffins, busted up bodies and damaged minds coming home----after fighting someone elses battle. I've been watching it my entire life, since the Vietnam era. What's worse is I think too many people have come to expect this of us. They simply tolerate tyranny for decades waiting for us to do something about it. And that needs to stop. It's not good for them or us.

Having said that, I am not opposed to assisting in other ways when possible. I just draw the line at sending our young people to do the dirty work unless it is absolutely necessary. (And I'm talking about things on the order of mass genocide or overwhelming armed invasion upon an ally.)

Dave

Thanks Dave, too much time on my hands lately. (Damn, I can't wait to get back to work.)
Yep. The defense of Kuwait(1st Gulf War) was justified IMO, stopping genocide is also a very legitimate reason. My Dad's outfit liberated one of the Buchenwald camps in Germany (Tenth Armored)

[Dondilion]

Observations re video:

Dispite the cry about food most of the protestors appear well fed.

A good number of the anti government spoke persons appear to be black.
The possible reason being that they do not have families or relatives abroad
because of the fact that the bulk of the exile community is white or near white.
The blacks despite their newly acquired education have not the connection to foreign
largess and therefore find themselves in lower tier economic positions.

[Charles]

Well Julio, I don't know shit about Cuba other than you have damn good spicy food, damn good cigars, and Castro seizing power hasn't done ya'll any good.

IMHO.

I'm not sure of the point of your threads, but I assume that you are suggesting that the US assumes normal relations with Cuba. If that's the case, I wholeheartedly agree.

I figure that the Castro boys have pretty much played their last card anyway. And normalized relations would not only benefit Cuba, but the United States as well.

Feel free to correct me as necessary, as I don't know shit about Cuba. Hell, I don't even know the proper slur to call "you people". That's a joke, BTW.

I don't even know enough to agree or disagree with you. In short, I'm unable to establish what premise you are advancing.

No disrespect meant as I'm only curious to your position.

But I like ya,

Chas

[juliovideo]

Originally Posted by bobabode

Your claim as to the superior monetary contribution that the Cubans have made ("internal revenue") is mystifying to me.
Do you mean Cuban Americans taxes?or are you claiming to be the pre eminent job creators/revenue creators or what?

I was referring to the minority that more pay TAX in the United States by their income,this is good for us because it gives an idea of wealth we generate,and at the same time your entrepreneurial talent.

.........excuse my english

I look forward in seeing Cuba in a state of rights, freedom of expression, respect for human rights, not panic and not intolerance............. and end the communist apartheid.



------------------

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

If you don't like Cubas communist government, (And I don't blame you for that.), then do something about it.

"......Cubans even today as in 1781 maintain their unique tradition of defending freedom above all else"

Really? Then what in the fuck are they waiting for? It's been over sixty years, now.

No. I'm not risking any American lives to do it for them.

Dave

However our policy toward Cuba has kept 3 generations of Cuba's worse off than they would have been.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by juliovideo

I was referring to the minority that more pay TAX in the United States by their income,this is good for us because it gives an idea of wealth we generate.







------------------

Are you referring to the Cubans as a distinct minority separate from the larger hispanic minority?

If yes, then I doubt tax inflow from the Cubans could be larger than that of Mexican Americans.

[juliovideo]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

Are you referring to the Cubans as a distinct minority separate from the larger hispanic minority?

If yes, then I doubt tax inflow from the Cubans could be larger than that of Mexican Americans.

Median Income/Earnings by Sex, Nationality, and Year.

Ratio of Hispanic/
In Dollars Non-Spanish

Nationality 1969 1976 1982 1990 1969 1976 1982 1990

Males
Non-Hispanic - 8,981 13,759 22,207 - - - -
Mexican - 6,450 10,397 12,894 - 0.72 0.76 0.58
Puerto Rican - 6,687 9,206 18,193 - 0.74 0.67 0.82
Cuban - 7,074 8,561 17,455 - 0.79 0.62 0.79

Females
Non-Hispanic - 3,394 5,482 12,438 - - - -
Mexican - 2,750 4,933 9,286 - 0.81 0.90 0.75
Puerto Rican - 3,837 4,698 11,702 - 1.13 0.86 0.94
Cuban - 3,407 4,682 12,904 - 1.00 0.85 1.04

Family
Non-Hispanic 8,011 - 22,80036,330 - - - -
Mexican 5,488 9,546 16,900 23,240 0.69 -0.74 0.64
Puerto Rican4 ,969 7,290 11,300 18,008 0.62 - 0.5 0.5
Cuban 6,383 11,772 18,000 31,439 0.8 - 0.79


http://www.latinoteca.com/latcontent...20and%20Cubans





.....but this is not important, the important thing is to see Cuba free and then tell you.

-------------------

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by juliovideo

1). I was referring to the minority that more pay TAX in the United States by their income,this is good for us because it gives an idea of wealth we generate,and at the same time your entrepreneurial talent.

2)..........excuse my english

3). I look forward in seeing Cuba in a state of rights, freedom of expression, respect for human rights, not panic and not intolerance............. and end the communist apartheid.



------------------

!). Still don't quite understand what you're getting at. Are you saying it means we have more rich people, because they are not repressed as they are in Cuba?

2). Don't worry about it, you're doing okay.

3). I look forward to the day we actually have all of those things here in the U.S., although it's true that we don't have anything anywhere near as oppressive as communism, despite the fact that half of the population seems to think we do. I would especially like to be rid of panic and intolerance, but then most of our politicians would have no tools to campaign with. Especially the Santorum types.

Dave