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  #21  
Old 12-17-2011, 07:20 AM
Charles Charles is offline
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Originally Posted by neophyte View Post
so, in the spirit of the whole good for the goose, good for the gander thing, I take it you'd have no problem with Iranian nationals/zealots coming over here and doing same? Dictating terms to us regarding our national defense and military postures?
I suppose that would only be fair, wouldn't it? After all, we've had a hand in meddling in their affairs every since they aligned themselves with the Nazis during WWII.

Whether the current situation is our fault or not is water under the bridge. What do you propose we do now?

Simply step back and allow them nuclear weapons?

Myself, I doubt that there is much we can do to prevent it long term...other than slow the process down in hopes that the Mullahs will be disposed of beforehand.

Chas
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  #22  
Old 12-17-2011, 07:29 AM
Charles Charles is offline
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Originally Posted by Bigerik View Post
I thought I posted at length about that recently. Didn't seem to sink in that time. Hopefully it will this time.
Jeez, you had the answer the whole time and I wuz too stoopid to get it.

And here I wuz thinking they hated us because of our freedoms!!!

Chas
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  #23  
Old 12-17-2011, 07:35 AM
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Bigerik Bigerik is offline
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Originally Posted by Charles View Post
Jeez, you had the answer the whole time and I wuz too stoopid to get it.

And here I wuz thinking they hated us because of our freedoms!!!

Chas
Stick around long enough, and you will learn that is frequently the case.
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  #24  
Old 12-17-2011, 07:45 AM
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Bigerik Bigerik is offline
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Iran has been meddled with constantly over the past hundreds of years. As it was mostly the Brits and the Russians doing it, the obvious candidate to turn to for help was Germany. Interesting reading on the Constitutionalist monarchy movement in Iran, and what the foreigners did against it.
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  #25  
Old 12-17-2011, 08:03 AM
neophyte neophyte is offline
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Originally Posted by Charles View Post
I suppose that would only be fair, wouldn't it? After all, we've had a hand in meddling in their affairs every since they aligned themselves with the Nazis during WWII.

Whether the current situation is our fault or not is water under the bridge. What do you propose we do now?

Simply step back and allow them nuclear weapons?

Myself, I doubt that there is much we can do to prevent it long term...other than slow the process down in hopes that the Mullahs will be disposed of beforehand.

Chas
within this thought lies the essence of the fallacy of America's view of the rest of the world. We're American, we're christian, ergo, we will decide what is best for you and your country, impose our will upon you, and bludgeon you until you see the light of wisdom that shines so brightly on us.

Allow? Really?

America does not, by any tenet, measure, or interpretation of international law have the authority to allow, disallow, or otherwise steer and influence a damned thing Iran or any other nation decides is in their best interests. We presume to occupy some mythical moral high ground because we embrace the rule of law, then discard it whenever it doesn't suit our ends or purposes.

Giving full measure to the validity of our cause and purpose in WW2, here's the key to it all. There was a time and place in history for America to assume the role of the benevolent dictator, but it ended over a half century ago.

Until we, as a nation and people, grasp the concept of staying the fuck out of other peoples ways of life,business, and governments, we will be despised for just what we are, and suffer from the resulting hostility.

Peace is a virtual impossibility in this world with a jackbooted bully mashing the throats of those that won't comply with it's wishes, and we are wearing those boots.
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  #26  
Old 12-17-2011, 08:08 AM
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Bigerik Bigerik is offline
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Wow. Strong post!
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  #27  
Old 12-17-2011, 08:24 AM
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merrylander merrylander is offline
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All we have to do is stay out of the area, between the Sunni and the Shia they will likely manage to kill themselves off given the opportunity. I just hope we left enough armaments with the Kurds.
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  #28  
Old 12-17-2011, 08:34 AM
Charles Charles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neophyte View Post
within this thought lies the essence of the fallacy of America's view of the rest of the world. We're American, we're christian, ergo, we will decide what is best for you and your country, impose our will upon you, and bludgeon you until you see the light of wisdom that shines so brightly on us.

Allow? Really?

America does not, by any tenet, measure, or interpretation of international law have the authority to allow, disallow, or otherwise steer and influence a damned thing Iran or any other nation decides is in their best interests. We presume to occupy some mythical moral high ground because we embrace the rule of law, then discard it whenever it doesn't suit our ends or purposes.

Giving full measure to the validity of our cause and purpose in WW2, here's the key to it all. There was a time and place in history for America to assume the role of the benevolent dictator, but it ended over a half century ago.

Until we, as a nation and people, grasp the concept of staying the fuck out of other peoples ways of life,business, and governments, we will be despised for just what we are, and suffer from the resulting hostility.

Peace is a virtual impossibility in this world with a jackbooted bully mashing the throats of those that won't comply with it's wishes, and we are wearing those boots.
Apparently we're not the only jackbooted bully.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctions_against_Iran

It's geopolitics, with Iran being one of the pawns. And I doubt that those who make policy have any illusions about moral supremacy.

And as much as I dislike bulling other people around, at times it's a necessity.

Probably a moot point anyway. The nuclear genie is out of the bottle, and at best all we are going to accomplish is to delay the inevitable.

You see, that's what people do, we kill one another. It's our nature.

Chas
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  #29  
Old 12-17-2011, 08:39 AM
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Oerets Oerets is offline
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Really just how are we going to stop Iran from joining the Nuclear weapons club? They don't seem to listen to reason. Thinking that having these weapons will give them more power in negotiating with the rest of the world. Or worst yet to be used against another neighbor.

A point of fact being what power did the U.S. have over Pakistan or even India going nuclear? Then you have Israel armed also, one can see why a country might be thinking of getting on board. Does anyone really think the Saudi's are without these weapons?

My fears are that they will the death of us all and should be eliminated. But it will take something horrendous I'm afraid to bring thoughts of their elimination.

I just wish.....

As Mr Lennon put so nicely to song,

"A brotherhood of man imagine all the people sharing all the world"


"You, you may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us and the world will live as one"



Barney
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  #30  
Old 12-17-2011, 08:51 AM
Charles Charles is offline
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Originally Posted by merrylander View Post
All we have to do is stay out of the area, between the Sunni and the Shia they will likely manage to kill themselves off given the opportunity. I just hope we left enough armaments with the Kurds.
Be nice if we could, or WOULD.

Should of been developing our own energy resources for years now instead of remaining reliant on the Middle East.

I suppose there is just too much money involved in keeping things as they are.

Chas
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