The money verses freedom thread

devoid · #1 12-04-2009, 11:26 PM

Hello all. First an introduction to all you strangers. I'll admit I was almost to tears last night when I finally discovered this new to me website. For years in the midst of that intelligent, creative, resourceful and valuing the past other place, I frequently had much else to say but, well, could not.

Not no more. And this is good.

So - This whole money and freedom thing. It's become ever more clearer to me that the less money I have and the less I need it the better of I am. My only debt, to the Machine, is because I accepted money in trade for some of my God given time on this earth. And so I am for the while enslaved to the Machine. Now savings I don't have. The Machine would have taken that from me at this point anyhow. And if I did have savings I'd probably have a mortgage. A 30 year sentence to handover a shitload more money than the otherwise. Same deal with those ever so popular car loans. And then it rusts and pops a timing belt. Brilliant. I have no credit debt. I'm at most two months behind on like the cable and trash bills. I don't have a credit ratting. Not good, not bad, doesn't exist. So I don't have any for them to take, nor do I really owe any. I'm a nobody who lives low and pays his bills as needed. My car is ancient. Can't stress much about my stock portfolio or the decline of the dollar. My lifestyle hones my skill of getting it done without needing the dollar in the equation. Perhaps I should be a little more social as I have a lot to offer my community in keeping our infrastructure up and running and REAL social network is the backbone community infrastructure. Plus it's somewhat a human need to be chatty with Jim next door. Things I see needing addressing are housing, transportation, energy and food. If I minimize and build community centered solutions I, and my neighbors, should be more well off, of this dollar thing. Sure a fat wad is nice. But what do you do when it ain't there? Glad I don't have to get out the Visa and pick up the phone when my heat's out. I feel somewhat free. And I would think it's that independence and sovereignty that lets me feel that way.

So what do you think?

Boreas · #2 12-04-2009, 11:48 PM

Hi, Devoid. Welcome. Sounds like you may have the skills and attitude for the tough times ahead.

John

devoid · #3 12-04-2009, 11:57 PM

Yes I consider myself blessed with that uncommon common sense.

BlueStreak · #4 12-05-2009, 12:13 AM

Are you homeless?

Ya know, while I admire your desire to be free of "The Machine", I just can't see myself wanting to be-----------without. I have a car loan, (A FAT carloan.), and a relatively small mortgage, (I bought this place twenty years ago.). But this also means I have an awesome car and a nice comfy little house. But hey, I've made my choices and you've made yours. I can respect that.

Don't get me wrong. I truly do admire anyone who sees "The Machine" and what it does to us. Some folks live their whole lives and go to their graves unhappy because they were never satisfied. And that is truly sad.

Anyways, good to meet you my Man!
I look forward to reading your thoughts!

Dave

devoid · #5 12-05-2009, 01:07 AM

No, I have a roof over my head. All alone. And while I like it like that I realize it's horribly inefficient and selfish. I think apartment blocks are the way to go if you want to lower housing costs. Nice thick block walls. Good thermal and acoustic insulation. And while your putting the foundation in for it put a geothermal field in. And solar hot water heat up top. Wind and batteries for lighting. Computers can be made much more efficient. The geothermal can keep your beer cold too. Above point A to B cars are toys, and therefore a luxury. Meet '86 740GLE wagon. Coldwar car. They made diesels. I'd like one.

noonereal · #6 12-05-2009, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devoid

Hello all.

Hello Devoid.

merrylander · #7 12-05-2009, 08:16 AM

Welcome to the funny farm.

Charles · #8 12-05-2009, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devoid

No, I have a roof over my head. All alone. And while I like it like that I realize it's horribly inefficient and selfish. I think apartment blocks are the way to go if you want to lower housing costs. Nice thick block walls. Good thermal and acoustic insulation. And while your putting the foundation in for it put a geothermal field in. And solar hot water heat up top. Wind and batteries for lighting. Computers can be made much more efficient. The geothermal can keep your beer cold too. Above point A to B cars are toys, and therefore a luxury. Meet '86 740GLE wagon. Coldwar car. They made diesels. I'd like one.

There's more than one way to skin the cat if you don't want to another cog in the machine. Just look at the not so distant past.

People used to not have electrical service, gas, phones, etc. They heated their houses with wood, used kerosene for lighting and cooking, built their houses with tall ceilings to facilitate cooling in the summer, had summer kitchens, etc. I can think of a local mansion which was built over the mouth of a cave which allowed the cool air to be drawn into the interior for cooling in the summer.

Now if you were to pick up maybe 3-5 acres of woods, set your house into the side of a hill, concrete floor and wall where the side of the house addressed the earth, double envelope construction on the exposed walls, fairly steep roof, lots and lots of insulation, etc. You could even bury pvc in the earth and use a simple blower for natural air conditioning. Install a small wood stove for heat, if well insulated enough you could pick up limbs from the ground for firewood and have more than you could use.

The trick would be in the planning stage. Take your time and get this part right in order to eliminate false steps.

I would also suggest obtaining the financing needed to get the structure and utilities in place and to procure the materials necessary to finish it out. Then finish it at your leisure, you'll have a roof over your head in the meantime.

The costs in new construction are labor and finishing the interior, the basic structure is relatively cheap. I suppose you could accomplish this out of your hip pocket, but unless you have fairly deep pockets, it would be difficult.

One other thing, most bankers won't loan you a penny for a project like this. They can see it coming apart at the seams, and then taking a beating at the courthouse steps when they're forced to foreclose.

One other thing, be realistic in your goals. Solar and wind power are great, but I would run an electrical service regardless. The trick is to reduce your need for energy, not eliminate it. And keep the old car, their isn't a bigger waste of money than a new car.

I've considered doing this myself.

Chas

piece-itpete · #9 12-07-2009, 09:46 AM

Hi Devoid.

Nice to live simple. I used to be happy go lucky, now I do worry indeed.

I figure I'll be dead before my house is paid for, and even then taxes utilities et cetera cost a ton.

Pete

merrylander · #10 12-07-2009, 11:22 AM

I knew a couple in PA that had a house built into the side of the hill. The front wall was the only exterior wall, in the middle was a spiral staircase that climbed up into a glass enclosed section that led out onto the lawn, except the lawn was the roof. This also let light into the center of the house. The heat pump was about the size of one of those flash hot water heaters and hung on the wall.