80% Increase In Electric Bills?

[whell]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Your faith in the good will and honesty of the investor class (that runs things like the Power Industry) is touching.

I suspect you missed this thread a little while back: http://www.politicalchat.org/showthread.php?t=7405

Wow. Al-Jazeera cited as a reputable source of news.

Here's the back-story in the Brayton plant. Its old, its dirty. It can't survive the revised EPA regs, even its former owners were looking at closing it down, and folks in the community wanted the plant to be closed years ago.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/...siM/story.html

Somerset resident Pauline Rodrigues, a member of a grass-roots group that has pushed for the plant to be closed, said she has mixed feelings about Brayton’s retirement, given that it is Somerset’s biggest taxpayer.

Brayton’s owners have agreed to pay the town $16.75 million through 2016, according to the town assessor’s office.

But in viewing the closing from a health perspective, Rodrigues said, “I am thrilled to death.”

More here:

http://www.providencejournal.com/bre...on-in-2017.ece

Energy analyst David Schlissel said “a perfect storm” of circumstances has created a bleak outlook for coal-fired power plants in the United States. The price of natural gas, coal’s chief competitor these days, is historically low. Overall demand for power is weak because the economy hasn’t fully recovered. And utilities are increasingly being required to purchase electricity from renewable sources, including wind and solar.

Environmental regulations have also tightened, making it harder for coal plants, which are generally old and dirty, to stay in operation.

And:

Environmental and public health advocates have long lobbied for the closing of the plant. As recently as 2008, it was the leading source of toxic emissions in New England and in many years has been the top source of air pollution in Rhode Island, said Sylvia Broude, executive director of the Toxics Action Center.

So much for Al-Jazeera's presumed objectivity.

[donquixote99]

So Whell, can you quote something from the Al-Jazeera article that in your opinion is unreliable or nonobjective? Can you lay out the link that you seem to think is there between what's in your post, and such assessment of al Al-Jazeera?

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by whell

Sure. Electricity generated from Hydro - which is responsible for more than 1/2 of Canada's output - is relatively cheap. Canada also doesn't have the per capita demand for electricity that the US does.

Really, just because the name is Ontario Hydro the bulk of the electricity is Nuclear generated in CANDU reactors. Look up Bruce Peninsula sometime. I can see that you have never lived through an Ontario winter - less demand per capita my arse. In summer in Ottawa my air conditioner ran just as much as it does here in Maryland.

The local Flicker and Flash at onetime had an investment banker for a CEO. He squandered all the profits on bad investments insted of burying power lines. Our area probably has more defaced trees than any other part of the world. When the local electric company also sells and installs emergency generators you know you have a problem.

[merrylander]

The problem here is that knowing that the Brayton plant was to be decomissioned why did Energy pay so much money to acquire it?

[whell]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

So Whell, can you quote something from the Al-Jazeera article that in your opinion is unreliable or nonobjective? Can you lay out the link that you seem to think is there between what's in your post, and such assessment of al Al-Jazeera?

All of it, Don. I guess everyone loves a conspiracy. However, the fact that the plant has been on the bubble for years and the new owners finally made the decision to close it - a decision that has no particular novelty to it given the fate of old coal fired plants across the county - does not a conspiracy make.

[whell]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Really, just because the name is Ontario Hydro the bulk of the electricity is Nuclear generated in CANDU reactors. Look up Bruce Peninsula sometime. I can see that you have never lived through an Ontario winter - less demand per capita my arse. In summer in Ottawa my air conditioner ran just as much as it does here in Maryland.

Why not try to educate yourself a bit? Never lived through an Ontario winter, but I've lived through plenty of Michigan Winters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ty_consumption

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by whell

Why not try to educate yourself a bit? Never lived through an Ontario winter, but I've lived through plenty of Michigan Winters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ty_consumption

Welll let's see, in Ottawa I had a 1500 sq ft bungalow, brick and stucco exterior standard 2x4 exterior walls. Here we have a 3000 sq ft two story, aluminium siding 2x6 exrerior walls. Consumption in Ottawa was slightly less than half of what it is here and this house is all electric whereas the Ottawa house had Gas heat
Speaking of education you do realize that Wikipedia gets its input mostly from users? They do claim to validate all input but they only have so many people on staff..

I do realize that to you personal experience counts for naught and the Internet is the sole source of knowledge. I am sure folks here will recall my evaluation of the internet. Also as a point of reference all of Canada is not the city of Ottawa. Our common ancestors seem to have had a penchant for building capital cities in swampland, Ottawa's summer climate is very similar to DC's and yes we did have air conditioning, many of our neighbours did not, but since I could afford it I installed central AC myself, a 3 ton Lennox.

BTW did you read the last column Mike? Average comsumption per capita; Canada - 1871 US - 1402. Guess you forgot the populaion factor?

Yes education is fine, and at least I can read.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by whell

All of it, Don. I guess everyone loves a conspiracy. However, the fact that the plant has been on the bubble for years and the new owners finally made the decision to close it - a decision that has no particular novelty to it given the fate of old coal fired plants across the county - does not a conspiracy make.

"All of it," huh? Talk about a wide tarbrush. Your assessment remains devoid of support.

Let's get down to specifics. Here's a quote from the Al Jazerra piece:

The Independent System Operator–New England, which runs the electricity market, asserts in a filing that it has no duty, reason or intent to investigate whether closing Brayton Point constitutes market manipulation. That claim is shocking, because preventing manipulation is the primary reason the market operator exists.

There are two claims of fact in this quotation. Can you show either of them to be false? You certainly should be able to falsify at least one of them, since you claim "all" of the Al Jazerra piece is unreliable and non-objective.

In addition to the two facts, the quote of course contains opinion--that the Independent System Operator's stance is "shocking." But unless you show one of the facts to be in error, I find it hard to see anything unreasonable about that opinion.

What I find unreasonable and nonobjective is your apparent prejudiced willingness to trash Al Jazeera based on nothing at all.

[whell]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

There are two claims of fact in this quotation. Can you show either of them to be false? You certainly should be able to falsify at least one of them, since you claim "all" of the Al Jazerra piece is unreliable and non-objective.

In addition to the two facts, the quote of course contains opinion--that the Independent System Operator's stance is "shocking." But unless you show one of the facts to be in error, I find it hard to see anything unreasonable about that opinion.

What I find unreasonable and nonobjective is your apparent prejudiced willingness to trash Al Jazeera based on nothing at all.

Fine. Go to ISO- NE's web site and post a citation that confirms that: "preventing manipulation is the primary reason the market operator exists."

As for your concerns about my "willingness to trash Al Jazeera", ask me if I care.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by whell

Fine. Go to ISO- NE's web site and post a citation that confirms that: "preventing manipulation is the primary reason the market operator exists."

As for your concerns about my "willingness to trash Al Jazeera", ask me if I care.

BURDEN OF PROOF SHIFT

You said the Al Jazeera article is no good, but you can't show one little thing that's no good about it.

You don't care? About whether there's a particle of truth to your mudslinging? Well that was obvious, actually, but your frank admission is still a little but startling....