Another Mass Shooting in the Good Ol' USA

[piece-itpete]

What legislation would have stopped this shooting?

[RickeyM]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

What legislation would have stopped this shooting?

A ban on gun ownership by civilians.

Well you asked.

[RickeyM]

Further details revealed that police waited outside the school for forty minutes or more before entering the building despite pleas from onlookers outside.

Desperate onlookers urged police to charge into the school where their children were trapped. Instead, police massed outside the building for 40 minutes and waited.

Javier Cazares, whose fourth-grade daughter, Jacklyn Cazares, was killed in the attack, said he raced to the school when he heard about the shooting, arriving while police officers massed outside the building.

Upset that the police were not moving in, he raised the idea of charging into the school with several other bystanders.

Once inside it seems police were stymied by a locked door.

Meanwhile, a law-enforcement official familiar with the investigation said the Border Patrol agents had trouble breaching the classroom door and had to get a staff member to open the room with a key.

[BigElCat]

Originally Posted by RickeyM

Further details revealed that police waited outside the school for forty minutes or more before entering the building despite pleas from onlookers outside.

Desperate onlookers urged police to charge into the school where their children were trapped. Instead, police massed outside the building for 40 minutes and waited.


Once inside it seems police were stymied by a locked door.

Now they're saying it was 80 minutes.

Police threw up a perimeter to deal with unruly parents (desperate to save their kids) while they rehashed state vs federal authority.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by BigElCat

Now they're saying it was 80 minutes.

Police threw up a perimeter to deal with unruly parents (desperate to save their kids) while they rehashed state vs federal authority.

So...the first time I experienced this was back around 1990, I was out and decided to pick up a cup of coffee at 7-11. There's this patrol car sitting in the parking lot, windows down, cops there in the car. I figured it was a donut break. So as I'm heading toward the door the driver says something like, "You might not want to go in there." So I ask if there's a problem and I'm told that the store alarm went off. They obviously were not going in there. A few years later I'm on my way into a Target store, there's a cop at the door, tells me there's a possible incident, man with a gun inside. But none of the cops are going inside. About 10 years ago the silent alarm went off at the counseling agency where I worked. Nobody knew it had been set off, but there's a patrol car sitting at the curb in front of the office. So...the office manager asks me to go out there and check what's happening. The cop says..."Your alarm went off." So I innocently say, "Oh, OK, it's just that you've been out here for a while and we didn't know what it was about." The cop is annoyed with my comment and says, "We don't know what's going on in there, we're not going in there."

Well these 90 Texas cops hanging out in the hallway on the other side of the door of a fourth grade classroom for an hour knew exactly what was going on in there. They could hear the automatic weapons fire.



https://youtu.be/jiZZ0IJL2_w

[BigElCat]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

So...the first time I experienced this was back around 1990, I was out and decided to pick up a cup of coffee at 7-11. There's this patrol car sitting in the parking lot, windows down, cops there in the car. I figured it was a donut break. So as I'm heading toward the door the driver says something like, "You might not want to go in there." So I ask if there's a problem and I'm told that the store alarm went off. They obviously were not going in there. A few years later I'm on my way into a Target store, there's a cop at the door, tells me there's a possible incident, man with a gun inside. But none of the cops are going inside. About 10 years ago the silent alarm went off at the counseling agency where I worked. Nobody knew it had been set off, but there's a patrol car sitting at the curb in front of the office. So...the office manager asks me to go out there and check what's happening. The cop says..."Your alarm went off." So I innocently say, "Oh, OK, it's just that you've been out here for a while and we didn't know what it was about." The cop is annoyed with my comment and says, "We don't know what's going on in there, we're not going in there."

Well these 90 Texas cops hanging out in the hallway on the other side of the door of a fourth grade classroom for an hour knew exactly what was going on in there. They could hear the automatic weapons fire.



https://youtu.be/jiZZ0IJL2_w

Some times they do, bro. Doug Schroeder, a small town police chief knew this perp personally. Knew he was shooting everybody in sight with an AK-47. Ran him down and shot him dead (IIRC with a pump shotgun, or maybe an AR rifle).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesston_shooting

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by BigElCat

Some times they do, bro. Doug Schroeder, a small town police chief knew this perp personally. Knew he was shooting everybody in sight with an AK-47. Ran him down and shot him dead (IIRC with a pump shotgun, or maybe an AR rifle).

I saw this poster and it immediately reminded me of my personal experiences with coppers and their reactions to "possible man with a gun" incidents. It's just anecdotal evidence of course, but my experience as a mental health profession is that most of our beliefs and most of our character is based on our personal experience. I can't tell you how many men, but it was a whole bunch of them, who came in to counseling pissed off at the world, aggressive and often violent with their own kids and wives/girlfriends, and others, self-destructive with lousy impulse control, who...when we addressed the brutality of their own fathers, would say something like...

"Oh hell...if my old man hadn't beaten my ass I would be dead or in prison now."

OK...nevermind.

[Pio1980]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

What legislation would have stopped this shooting?

An answer in the specific is difficult to impossible for a determined assailant.
Maybe a better question would be,
"What legislation could impede mass shootings like these?"

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

What legislation would have stopped this shooting?

Legislation like that passed in the UK in 1996 after the first, and only, mass school shooting there...the Dunblane massacre in Dunblane, Scotland. Within a year, the UK passed laws outlawing public ownership of all guns outside of long barreled non-automatic loading hunting rifles and shotguns. Of course, the firearms homicide rate in the UK was never anything like we have here, pete. But right now, 25 years since Dunblane, the firearms murder rate here has exploded to forty times the rate in the UK. Forty fucking times.

And in Sweden it's most interesting. No handguns, no assault weapons only hunting rifles. Hunting is very popular in Sweden and the Swede's have accepted the extreme requirements and regulations that must be met and adhered to in order to qualify to own a hunting rifle and keep your hunting rifle. It takes a long time, it's expensive, and you are required to re-file for your firearms license yearly and pay the stiff fee for the license. And what happens if you don't re-apply and pay the license fee? The cops come to your house and confiscate your guns. You fill out the paperwork and pay the fee and you get your guns back. If you don't re-file and pay within the prescribed period of time. the confiscation becomes permanent.

That sort of legislation, pete.

One last thing, pete. In 2020 for the first time, gunshot became the most common cause of death in American children. Death by fucking gunshot. More than vehicular accidents, more than drownings, more than illness or disease...GUNSHOT. Despicable and among first world nations of course...ONLY IN AMERICA.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

What legislation would have stopped this shooting?

Since you've chosen to get so specific:
1. Raise purchase age to 21 (he was 18 as was the kid in Buffalo).
2. Red flag law (he showed self-destructive and violent signs like self-mutilation).
3. Forbid autoloading firearms and limit magazine capacity to 5 rounds (federal law already restricts magazine capacity to 3 rounds to hunt migratory game birds (ducks, geese, doves and they're harder to hit than humans)).
4. In keeping with strict conservative constitutional originalism, restrict unlimited firearms access to flintlocks only (I'm joking here, but conservatives always insist adamantly upon originalism).