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  #21  
Old 01-15-2018, 09:49 AM
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Pio1980 Pio1980 is offline
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Trump had an easily tracked record for dishonesty, unethical business practices, and factual incredibly long before he became a political candidate.
Defending him as anything but what and who he is and always has been is both disingenuous and ridiculous.
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  #22  
Old 01-15-2018, 01:54 PM
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whell whell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbow View Post
Durbin's and Graham's comments were not third-party and are fully consistent with other documented instances of racism by your Dear Leader, including (but not limited to): Federal lawsuit over housing discrimination, Central Park Five, Mexicans are rapists, Judge Curiel, Muslim Ban ...

Secondly, Flake and Scott saying that Graham told them of Trump's comments are first-party comments of what Graham said after the meeting. The bottom line - You chose to believe Trump over Durbin, Graham, Scott and Flake. Keep on doing so. It shows the darkness and depravity of your soul.
Durbin's record of less than honest comments doesn't inspire confidence. Graham hasn't confirmed one way or another what was said. Flake and Scott weren't in the meeting. Their characterization of what Graham did or didn't say are not terribly relevant, because we don't know what Graham said to them.

Your comments above show that you believe what you want to believe, not just about what goes on inside the beltway but also about comments made here. Here's exactly what I said about who I "believe":

I have no idea what was said or not said in that meeting, and neither do you.

You either are being purposefully dishonest, or you can't read. Frankly, I don't know which and I really don't care.
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  #23  
Old 01-15-2018, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell View Post
Durbin's record of less than honest comments doesn't inspire confidence...
And Trump's does???
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  #24  
Old 01-15-2018, 03:01 PM
Chicks Chicks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell View Post
I have no idea what was said or not said in that meeting, and neither do you.

You either are being purposefully dishonest, or you can't read. Frankly, I don't know which and I really don't care.
And you are being intellectually dishonest to yourself. C'mon, man, you really aren't as stupid as Zero, there's hope for you yet! What the hell is it that triggered your hatred for real journalism?
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  #25  
Old 01-15-2018, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by finnbow View Post
And Trump's does???
That's essentially the point. We're left with not knowing what really happened because the folks involved are all agenda driven, are all willing to say or not say whatever they need to in service to that agenda, and none have a great track record with unabated honesty.

So, right back to my earlier post. Folks are going to believe what they want to believe. Me? I don't believe the media reporting on this, but I don't think we know what was said in that meeting and exclusively taking Durbin's word for it is a non-starter.
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  #26  
Old 01-15-2018, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by whell View Post
That's essentially the point. We're left with not knowing what really happened because the folks involved are all agenda driven, are all willing to say or not say whatever they need to in service to that agenda, and none have a great track record with unabated honesty.
Durbin has perhaps told a lie or two in the past years (he is a politician, after all), whereas Trump has told 2,000 in the past year and has a history of frequent racist statements. Furthermore, Flake, Scott, and Graham have no such history. Also, Trump's two Senate defenders said they couldn't recall what was said in the meeting before they affirmatively asserted a day later that they could. Lastly, Trump first tweet after the meeting admitted he used nasty language and still held the racist sentiments that led to his nasty statement.

The bottom line is that your Dear Leader has a long history of racist statements and has long been viewed by most non-sycophantic Americans as a vile, disgusting, racist human being. But, Neo-Nazis and the KKK continue to love and praise him. You're in good company.
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Last edited by finnbow; 01-15-2018 at 07:49 PM.
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  #27  
Old 01-15-2018, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbow View Post
Durbin has perhaps told a lie or tow in the past years, whereas Trump has told 2,000 in the past year and has a history of frequent racist statements. Furthermore, Flake, Scott, and Graham have no such history. Also, Trump's two Senate defenders said they couldn't recall what was said in the meeting before they affirmatively asserted a day later that they could. Lastly, Trump first tweet after the meeting admitted he used nasty language and still held the racist sentiments that led to his nasty statement.
There you go again. Since when is pushing for a merit based immigration system "racist"? Flake and Scott, and probably Graham, are much closer to each other than they are to Trump on loose immigration policy which likely colors some of their comments, particularly Flake.

You go ahead and believe what you want to believe.
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  #28  
Old 01-15-2018, 07:24 PM
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finnbow finnbow is offline
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Originally Posted by whell View Post
There you go again. Since when is pushing for a merit based immigration system "racist"? Flake and Scott, and probably Graham, are much closer to each other than they are to Trump on loose immigration policy which likely colors some of their comments, particularly Flake.

You go ahead and believe what you want to believe.
It isn't racist. Trump is undoubtedly so, however, and decent people are concerned he will use his racist views to inform his policy. Decent people (which excludes Trump and his apologists) don't believe that merit is race-based, but are justifiably concerned that Trump does. In the words of conservative Michael Gerson:

The claim that America needs more Norwegian immigrants and fewer Africans from “shithole countries” is racist. It is not the same as arguing for a higher-skilled immigrant pool. That argument might go something like: “We need a higher-skilled immigrant pool.”...

On this issue, Trump has not earned a single benefit of the doubt. His racial demagoguery in the Central Park Five case . . . his attribution of Kenyan citizenship to Barack Obama . . . his references to Mexican migrants as rapists and murderers . . . his unconstitutional attempt at a Muslim ban . . . his moral equivocation following the deadly protests in Charlottesville . . . his statement, reported by the New York Times, that Nigerians would never “go back to their huts” after seeing America . . . all of these constitute an elaborate pattern of bigotry. Trump makes off-hand racist comments, he promotes racist stereotypes and he incites racism as a political strategy.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...98a_story.html
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Last edited by finnbow; 01-15-2018 at 09:55 PM.
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  #29  
Old 01-15-2018, 10:04 PM
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bobabode bobabode is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbow View Post
It isn't racist. Trump is undoubtedly so, however, and decent people are concerned he will use his racist views to inform his policy. Decent people (which excludes Trump and his apologists) don't believe that merit is race-based, but are justifiably concerned that Trump does. In the words of conservative Michael Gerson:

The claim that America needs more Norwegian immigrants and fewer Africans from “shithole countries” is racist. It is not the same as arguing for a higher-skilled immigrant pool. That argument might go something like: “We need a higher-skilled immigrant pool.”...

On this issue, Trump has not earned a single benefit of the doubt. His racial demagoguery in the Central Park Five case . . . his attribution of Kenyan citizenship to Barack Obama . . . his references to Mexican migrants as rapists and murderers . . . his unconstitutional attempt at a Muslim ban . . . his moral equivocation following the deadly protests in Charlottesville . . . his statement, reported by the New York Times, that Nigerians would never “go back to their huts” after seeing America . . . all of these constitute an elaborate pattern of bigotry. Trump makes off-hand racist comments, he promotes racist stereotypes and he incites racism as a political strategy.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...98a_story.html
Gerson nailed it to the barn door. I can't believe that anyone is trying to argue otherwise.
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  #30  
Old 01-15-2018, 10:11 PM
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finnbow finnbow is offline
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Here's the well-sourced skinny on the "shithole" meeting and the politics surrounding it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...98a_story.html
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