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  #1081  
Old 02-19-2015, 09:37 AM
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HarmanKardon HarmanKardon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donquixote99 View Post
As I've said before, I think the 'Nazis were uniquely evil' theory holds a danger. It leads one to conclude it can't happen again. But it can.

I would point to Idi Amin as a fellow with many Hitler-like qualities. Joseph Kony likewise qualifies, I'd say. You may say, well, they are third-world, and one is just an outlaw. But we already have a counter-example to the idea that an educated, modern nation will be immune to this sort of thing....
Perhaps I should correct my comment concerning the uniqueness of the Barking Monster's qualities - but the number of 60 million killed people is a unique quantity.

@ nailer: You misunderstood me, but you get the last word.
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  #1082  
Old 02-19-2015, 09:52 AM
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Leni Riefenstahl's "Sieg des Glaubens" (Victory of Belief) is on youtube along with "Triumph of the Will".
It would be instructive to have seen these before making comparisons to Adolph Hitler.
Sieg was made in 1933 (the Nazis definitely hit the ground running) and widely distributed before being ordered withdrawn and destroyed after the "Night of the Long Knives" decapitated the SA, whose leader appeared prominently with AH in the film. It was re-edited and refreshed with scenes from the 1934 Nuremberg rally to fill in the eliminated segments without the newly non-personified Ernst Roehm, and reissued as "Triumph of the Will". It seems while AH demanded loyalty he seldom if ever reciprocated.
A lone unknown surviving copy of Sieg des Glaubens was recently discovered in British archives in 2009.

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Last edited by Pio1980; 02-19-2015 at 10:01 AM.
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  #1083  
Old 02-19-2015, 10:34 AM
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merrylander merrylander is offline
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Originally Posted by nailer View Post
I don't wear boots and I didn't misunderstand you.

I do understand how a German who blames WWII on Adolf would need my comment explained. After all, as the Treaty of Versailles was being signed Marshal Foch said: "This is not peace. It is an armistice for 20 years."
And Clemenceau made damn good and sure that Foch would be right.
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  #1084  
Old 02-19-2015, 11:11 AM
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Dondilion Dondilion is offline
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Originally Posted by donquixote99 View Post
As I've said before, I think the 'Nazis were uniquely evil' theory holds a danger. It leads one to conclude it can't happen again. But it can.
Despite its danger, it is hard not to state it.

Last edited by Dondilion; 02-19-2015 at 03:49 PM.
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  #1085  
Old 02-19-2015, 11:14 AM
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Dondilion Dondilion is offline
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Originally Posted by merrylander View Post
And Clemenceau made damn good and sure that Foch would be right.
And the French prepared for the end of the twenty year period with the Maginot Line. What folly!
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  #1086  
Old 02-19-2015, 12:04 PM
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donquixote99 donquixote99 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dondilion View Post
Despite its danger, it has hard not to state it.
Compromise. For a clique that gains control of a major power, the Nazis were unusually evil.
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  #1087  
Old 02-19-2015, 12:10 PM
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donquixote99 donquixote99 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dondilion View Post
And the French prepared for the end of the twenty year period with the Maginot Line. What folly!
Bad leadership both created the Maginot line, and doomed the French army with or without it.
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  #1088  
Old 02-19-2015, 07:05 PM
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piece-itpete piece-itpete is offline
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Hitler was indeed susceptible to pressure. Various histories talk about his near-nervous collapses waiting for other countries' responses to his various risks and gambits.

Heck Russia tried in vain to create a counterbalance to Germany's' rising power and finally signed the non aggression treaty in desperation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by donquixote99 View Post
As I've said before, I think the 'Nazis were uniquely evil' theory holds a danger. It leads one to conclude it can't happen again. But it can.

.....
Agreed.

Regarding the Ukraine, on the surface it seems Putins playing Merkel like a puppet, stringing do-nothing Europe along while consolidating control over his territorial gains in Eastern Ukraine. But Merkel isn't that dumb. So she must be a willing partner, sacrificing Ukraine for stability.

That does sound eerily familiar.

I see the UK had to 'escort' some Russian bombers off its space with jet fighters again.

I heard part of an interview with the former US ambassador to the Ukraine (missed his name) on NPR the other day, he said Putin is terrified of a successful European-ization of the Ukraine because that would jeopardize his ruling junta in Russia.

Pete
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  #1089  
Old 02-19-2015, 07:55 PM
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Boreas Boreas is offline
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Originally Posted by piece-itpete View Post
I see the UK had to 'escort' some Russian bombers off its space with jet fighters again.
As I understand it, the Russian planes didn't encroach into British airspace. Apparently, they were "near" British airspace. What that means and which of the two countries was the one trying to create an incident is, at this point, an open question. This is especially true in light of the incredibly provocative language used by British Defense Minister Michael Fallon when he said that Putin is a "real and present danger" to the Baltics and is "is as great a threat to Europe as Islamic State."

This overheated rhetoric is a serious impediment to any solution in Ukraine or for any mutual cooperation regarding the Iran nuclear talks and the defeat of Daesh. We need Russia to be involved in these processes and they have already shown both a willingness and ability to be an effective partner. Of course, that may have changed thanks to provocations from NATO, the EU and the US.

John
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  #1090  
Old 02-19-2015, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piece-itpete View Post
Regarding the Ukraine, on the surface it seems Putins playing Merkel like a puppet, stringing do-nothing Europe along while consolidating control over his territorial gains in Eastern Ukraine. But Merkel isn't that dumb. So she must be a willing partner, sacrificing Ukraine for stability.
I trust Russia and Russian intentions a lot more than I do those of Saudi Arabia, Egypt and several others of our allies. We are great fools for alienating them as we've been.

You have to understand what's motivating them right now. We see the encroachment of NATO and the EU into the Baltics, Georgia, Romania and Ukraine as hegemonic. Russia, and not just Putin, sees it as existential. They believe this is about crushing Russia and I think they may be right.

John
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