Good Reason to Egg On the Tea Party Folks

[d-ray657]

We can't pretend that racial hatred does not still exist. To many, a black man in a position of power is indeed a threat to their world order. You can see a line of it running in the birther arguments (not all, but many); it's not so subtly raised in Gingrich's concern about Obama's "Kenyan anti-colonial" approach to governing; the concern about Barak Hussein Obama planning to convert America to Islam. I don't assert that all opposition to Obama arises from his race, but I am saying that much of the hate-based commentary about him arises from fear of his race.

On the other hand, Bush started off his presidency in a way that many saw as illegitimate, having the Supreme Court step in to halt a state investigation of balloting issues, and thus clearing Dub's path to the White house. His frequent malapropisms gave plenty of fuel to the ridicule of his intelligence. His reliance on false data to push the US into a war with Iraq, one that was by many accounts pre-ordained before he assumed the presidency; the suppression of dissent, the opportunistic imposition of restrictions on freedom and privacy, and the arrogance of being above the law with respect to wire-tapping.

Whether you agree with their accuracy, those reasons gave people plenty of reasons to distrust him and question his legitimacy in office. The clear inference that the Bush administration mislead the public in order to justify his invasion of Iraq, and subsequent loss of American lives certainly gave rise to an angry distrust of the administration and the heads of it.

I understand that some people have been led to believe that Obama has intended to take the country in a socialist direction. It is a clear misunderstanding of the nature of political systems to believe that government involvement in the economy puts the country on the path to communism, but it is clearly a misunderstanding held by many. That perception can also be easily accepted by some because of their willingness to attribute anything evil to this dark man with an un-American sounding name.

In light of the records of conduct by the two presidents, it is a completely invalid comparison to justify the hatred shown to Obama by indicating that Bush faced hatred from the public as well. It most certainly would not account for the significantly higher number of death threats. It is simply illogical to completely divorce race from the level of hatred directed toward President Obama.

Regards,

D-Ray

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

I admit it. I'm as racist as they come, otherwise I would be showering Obama with rose pedals and singing praises about his programs.

If you don't like the sig, tough. I think it's funny. Unless you think their problems are our fault too.

Pete

PS painting your opponents as racist isn't right out of Roves playbook?

Grass is cut.............

I believe there are many who disagree with policies, that's fine and maybe for individuals like Pete, race really doesn't have anything to do with it. But, I think anyone who honestly believes race has nothing at all to do with the obvious level of hatred for the guy, just isn't dealing with reality. I know a guy who says positive things about the policies quite frequently. Even once told me he supported the health bill---except that, "Biggest problem I have is that it has Obamas name on it". Just seeing Obamas face on the telly gets him redfaced.------Racism.

Perhaps an individual such as our friend Pete might convince me that he doesn't care about the presidents race. Okay, I can see that. However, if you try to convince me that the noise coming from the right, the shrill, angry tone that started long before it even looked like he might win is NOT tinged with a strong element of racism, you are wasting your time. I'm am not that blind, naive or stupid.

Dave

[piece-itpete]

So, the problem with America isn't that it's run by Americans?

Who runs it? Who runs Mexico? Who runs Uganda?

Just who exactly are these mystery people?

Pete

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

So, the problem with America isn't that it's run by Americans?

That's right!

Who runs it? Who runs Mexico? Who runs Uganda?

Just who exactly are these mystery people?

Pete

Americans run America but that's not the same as saying that this simple fact accounts for our problems.

John

[piece-itpete]

Of course it does.

And thanks Blue. My black brothers might have something to say about it anyway

But hating Bush = good, hating Obama = bad, just doesn't do it for me. Too simplistic.

Pete

[whell]

Originally Posted by noonereal

This is a blatant lie.Right out of the Carl Rove book of politics. Just look them in the eye and lie. Over and over again.

The "its a lie" response from you is rising to the level of expectation. Would you lose the ability to communicate if that word was stricken from your vocabulary?

[d-ray657]

Pete,

When you put in your signature entry about Mexicans, you acknowledged that it caused some problems for the original author of the statement. Boreas just pointed out where it looks at the identity of the trouble makers rather than their actions. That is a valid distinction.

I don't believe you are a racist, and I believe that you deal with a diverse group of people fairly, and with your usual humor. Your make-up is not to be as sensitive to the possible offense that can be taken to your humor. Personally, I am torn on the issue of political correctness. It is a good thing for people to understand where some cultural sensitivities might lie. The biggest example of a complete failure in that area was Dr. Joyce (if I recall her moniker correctly) using the N bomb repeatedly in an exchange with a caller. She might have believed it was a valid use, but in expressing that, she was demonstrating an astonishing level of ignorance - and incompetence as a counselor.

On the other hand, I hate to see the chilling effect PC has on communication. When a person's race is relevant in a description, it should be used. If it's not, it shouldn't be. Less obvious examples might show some lack of sensitivity, or simply a lack of knowledge about a possible source for insult of hurt feelings. I would hope that we are at a point where one who might be offended by a statement had the freedom to explain why it is offensive without raising a huge racial issue, or encountering defensiveness on the part of the speaker. If we can understand that cultural differences exist, and be open to learning about them and explaining them, we will overcome ignorance, PC will have served its purpose and will become irrelevant. BTW, I use ignorance here as a descriptive word indicating a lack of knowledge, not as a pejorative.

P.S., I hope that you don't think this would be more appropriately communicated in a PM. I do believe that the subject matter is in the forum and should be addressed. Besides, I didn't think you would mind one of us lefties state that he does not believe you are a racist.

Regards,

D-Ray

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by whell

The "its a lie" response from you is rising to the level of expectation. Would you lose the ability to communicate if that word was stricken from your vocabulary?

"It's a Lie" is probably too strong a description of the inaccuracy of your assertion that the level of hatred leveled toward Dub is comparable to the hatred expressed toward Obama. However, as I explained in the post at the top of this page, to fail to acknowledge the difference is to ignore obvious facts, or to illogically try to explain them away.

Regards,

D-Ray

[piece-itpete]

D, well said and I agree with you overall. But it begs the question - do Greeks run good restaurants or not?

Pete

PS I use the same (real) meaning of the word ignorance, it happens naturally, no? (using it that way, not being so. Or maybe? ) But folks are so sensitive.

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

D, well said and I agree with you overall. But it begs the question - do Greeks run good restaurants or not?

Pete

PS I use the same (real) meaning of the word ignorance, it happens naturally, no? (using it that way, not being so. Or maybe? ) But folks are so sensitive.

I imagine that there are some Greeks who can't cook a hamburger, which describes some people of most every origin. Just because they are Greek doesn't mean they will make good food at a Greek Restaurant. Greek food is good, but if an Okie knew the recipies and had the skills, he could run a good Greek restaurant. (One of my favorite lines from college came from one of my Greek friends. He and I did not approve of the values espoused by the fraternity and sorority system. In his words, "The only good Greek is a real Greek" .)

If the Mexican government is not running effectively, it means that the people in office are not doing a good job of running it. It's a given that Mexicans will be running the Mexican government, but it is not because they are Mexican that there are problems with the government.

Do you agree that there is a difference?

P.S., I think I just let a joke fly over my head. Forgive my sophistry.

Regards,

D-Ray