Those progressive Europeans.

piece-itpete · #1 12-01-2009, 10:56 AM

Hehehe.

No comments on the Swiss banning minarets? I understand other European countries will be following their example and bring this ban to the ballot.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091129/...nd_minaret_ban

Pete

Fast_Eddie · #2 12-01-2009, 11:00 AM

I heard about that yesterday. That's really sad.

Boreas · #3 12-01-2009, 11:08 AM

And that's the problem with referenda. Direct democracy produces chaotic results like this and like Prop. 8 in California. We're served best by representative democracy where a legislature can serve to protect citizens from the "tyranny of the majority".

Very sad indeed!

John

Fast_Eddie · #4 12-01-2009, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boreas

We're served best by representative democracy where a legislature can serve to protect citizens from the "tyranny of the majority".

We have TABOR here in Colorado so they can't raise taxes. We love our state so much we've tied the hands of our elected officials and want to vote directly on everything. I still don't understand how such things are Constitutional. They pretty clearly laid out how laws are to be passed. I don't recall them saying anything about eveyone voting directly on everything. If that was the intent, why mess about with a Congress?

Boreas · #5 12-01-2009, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

We have TABOR here in Colorado so they can't raise taxes. We love our state so much we've tied the hands of our elected officials and want to vote directly on everything.

In the People's Republic of California it takes a 2/3 majority of the Leguislature to pass any budgetary legislation. With a closely divided body, that makes passing anything nigh on to impossible.

Quote:

I still don't understand how such things are Constitutional. They pretty clearly laid out how laws are to be passed. I don't recall them saying anything about eveyone voting directly on everything. If that was the intent, why mess about with a Congress?

Also in the PRC, we get around that one by being able to amend the State Constitution with a simple majority vote of the electorate on a ballot initiative which is placed on the ballot by petition. In the case of a regular initiative, like a transportation bond issue or removing a governor, 433,971 petition signatures are needed. For a Constitutional amendment it's higher at 694,354 signatures. This is in a state with a population of around 40,000,000.

Boreas · #6 12-01-2009, 11:50 AM

Ed,

Speaking of California and Colorado, when I lived there in the '70s I often saw a bumper sticker which read "Don't Californicate Colorado". Looks like in some ways they did.

John

merrylander · #7 12-01-2009, 11:22 AM

Well look at it in light of what the muslim countries do as regards even building a Christian church. If they want to keep their burkas and Sharia then why in hell are they emigrating to western countries? When in Rome do as the Romans do.

If you believe that religious freedom means you can drive a car wearing a f**king tent (she - at least we think it is a she- has a drivers licences here in MD) stay home. Of course at home not only would they not let her drive a car, she can't even leave the house without a male family member in tow.

Sorry but I do believe it is an attempt to turn the whole world into one big caliphate and this cannot happen. I do not fault the Swiss one bit.

Fast_Eddie · #8 12-01-2009, 01:41 PM

I'm confused- what are minarets? I thought they were those towers with the funny looking tops that were used to call the "faithful" to prayer. Are they actually a legal device that is somehow used as a justification for murder? I'm not sure how banning minarets would impact the application of a countries laws. I can build an alter and worship Satan but I'm pretty sure it doesn't make it legal for me to rape virgins.

I guess I find myself in the dissonant opinion that one can favor religious freedom and oppose murder.

Boreas · #9 12-01-2009, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

I'm confused- what are minarets? I thought they were those towers with the funny looking tops that were used to call the "faithful" to prayer. Are they actually a legal device that is somehow used as a justification for murder? I'm not sure how banning minarets would impact the application of a countries laws. I can build an alter and worship Satan but I'm pretty sure it doesn't make it legal for me to rape virgins.

I guess I find myself in the dissonant opinion that one can favor religious freedom and oppose murder.

Maybe the call to prayer has been outlawed too.

John

piece-itpete · #10 12-01-2009, 02:05 PM

No case? Not only does the immigration office require certain things (like a reason), but a GREAT video came out, showed the guy at a fundraiser calling Jews monkeys and pigs. Charming, caring guy that one

Ed I can see why whey passed the ban outside of strictly religous reasons, if you picture minarets going up everywhere suddenly it doesn't look like home anymore. Really, more of a zoning or construction issue. Not to say anti-muslim doesn't have anything to do with it but it passed at what, 57%?

Pete