Church - A place for quiet reflection ...

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by flacaltenn

"Unfettered capitalists"? In China? LOL
Next you're gonna trot out the exemplary enviro record behind the Iron Curtain..

The feds have ALWAYS been in the forefront of enviro destruction.. Most nuclear dumping issues stem from the weapons labs- not the power nuke industry. The wonderful public works dams that screwed up the river courses and bond up the salmon (now the e-whacks want to undo those). Adding MTBE to gasoline for clean air ended up poisoning ground water around the country. Selling the forest resources off for virtually nothing? The creation of all those coal fired plants for the TVA? (govt is slow to fix that one huh?) These BUREAUCRATS don't walk on pristine water my friend.

Ask a few friends whether they want the local forest managed by the Nature Conservancy or the BLM. You might start rethinking the centralized management of a sluggish, chronically under-motivated govt.

Whoa laddie, the weapons grade nuke stuff was handled, or rather mis-handled - by a lot of private corporations. I can tell you stories about them but then I would have to shoot you. It is only by the grace of God my wife is still alive.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by merrylander

whoa laddie, the weapons grade nuke stuff was handled, or rather mis-handled - by a lot of private corporations. I can tell you stories about them but then i would have to shoot you. It is only by the grace of god my wife is still alive.

lmao :d

[merrylander]

Some corporations employ legions of lawyers as a business plan. Before the got gobbled up by Alcatel, Lucent had more lawyers on staff than researchers. Their main function was suing everyone and his brother over alleged patent infringement.

[flacaltenn]

JonL:

If I were to order sliced turkey at the deli counter, I might be thinking of TURKEY. You know, take the bird, slaughter it, clean it, cook it, slice it up, and sell it to me. Nice and simple. Without regulation though, how do I know I'm not getting 51% turkey (including ground up feet, organs, etc, with some other kind of filler, injected with water and some kind of oil to make it juicy, artificial color to make it look good, tons of sodium nitrate to keep it from spoiling for six weeks, tons of antibiotics, MSG to make it taste like something, all molded together and pressed to take on the consistency and texture of real turkey meat, and then wrapped in some skin taken off the birds who died before they were big enough to slaughter

I hate to have to break this to you, but by neccessity, it is EXACTLY the federal turkey regulations that allow corporations to sell aldulterated, modified meat as "pure turkey". It's by neccessity because we all know what 100% turkey is, THEY (the feds) are defining the MINIMUM standard to be met. So --- read up my friend. The system doesn't do what you imagine it does.. (If you want me to produce some nauseating fed regs on turkey for you -- I'd be glad to)

So if I were you -- I'd start buying Hebrew National because "we answer to a higher authority". Their commercials are spot on for the purpose of this discussion.

“Government regulations say that we can make our Hebrew National hotdogs from frozen
beef. We don’t.
The government says we can use artificial coloring. We don’t.
They say we can add meat by-products. We don’t.
They say we can add non-meat fillers. We can’t.
We’re kosher and have to answer to an even higher authority.

There you go JonL... Market choice in action.. You want an Uncle Sam Hot Dog? Or a purer more "defined" product?

[flacaltenn]

MerryLander (and I hope things are good there)

Whoa laddie, the weapons grade nuke stuff was handled, or rather mis-handled - by a lot of private corporations. I can tell you stories about them but then I would have to shoot you. It is only by the grace of God my wife is still alive.

I probably had the proper tickets, so holster it...

Those Savannah, Hanford, Snake river pollution sites were on FED land, under FED oversight, using FED dollars. The fact that the govt uses private contractors for anything productive doesn't let them skate responsibility now does it? In the case of Apollo, we don't get the spin that Grumman, Hughes, Lockheed and GE got us to the moon now do we?

The FED govt is one of (if not THE) most dangerous polluters in this country.

[flacaltenn]

JonL:

You do realize don't you, that a mere 40 years ago, high schools sponsored rifle teams for target shooting on a fairly routine basis. Could have had an incident, but I don't remember any facts relating to high schoolers skirmishing with their school issued match rifles.. Why do you think that was?

I'll answer your question directly.. NO ONE is trusted by me enough to own nukes. Not Obama, not Amadinajob. So those are off the table. I don't need anything swifter than a semi-auto rifle or a handgun in my personal gun locker. HOWEVER -- I'd like to be able to go somewhere and RENT a howitzer for the afternoon. Or maybe actually get a certificate to operate an Abrams Battle Tank during my summer trip to Arizona. How cool would it be to shoot TV sets tuned to MSNBC with a 50 cal wing cannon?

D-Ray:

Yup.. there is a danger that in the nat gas extraction process, you fracture rock and expose the water table to mixing with coal dust or residual petroleum product. But the point is that the eco-whacks are using fracking as the strawdog without understanding the process. Of course, most eco-whack diatribes are short on logic and scientific analysis. You could do the fracking with 100% Perrier water (no fracking fluids) and STILL disturb the water table in some way. Question is -- why are these folks not concerned about the NATURAL risk of living over a huge hydrocarbon vault?

[JonL]

Originally Posted by flacaltenn

JonL:



I hate to have to break this to you, but by neccessity, it is EXACTLY the federal turkey regulations that allow corporations to sell aldulterated, modified meat as "pure turkey". It's by neccessity because we all know what 100% turkey is, THEY (the feds) are defining the MINIMUM standard to be met. So --- read up my friend. The system doesn't do what you imagine it does.. (If you want me to produce some nauseating fed regs on turkey for you -- I'd be glad to)

So if I were you -- I'd start buying Hebrew National because "we answer to a higher authority". Their commercials are spot on for the purpose of this discussion.



There you go JonL... Market choice in action.. You want an Uncle Sam Hot Dog? Or a purer more "defined" product?

But without federal regulation, there wouldn't even be minimum standards. The federal turkey regulations don't allow corporations to sell adulterated, modified meat as "pure turkey," they restrict the level of adulteration the corporations can include. Without minimum standards, what would "Turkey" be like? Who knows. There would certainly be unscrupulous companies foisting horrible things on the public as "Turkey." Without regulation there would be no need for them to disclose what's inside. The minimum standard is (or should be) intended to ensure that the least common denominator is still safe and that the consumer knows what they are getting. Companies like Hebrew National are still free to exceed that standard. There is still market choice in action. If the regulations and standards are poorly written, they should be improved, and not with the undue influence of the industry.

I've actually been involved with the EPA regulatory process regarding off-highway engine emissions, and I was pretty impressed with the way they went about it. As someone in the business, their regulations were going to increase my costs without a doubt, but as an air-breathing organism, I also recognized the necessity for the regulations and I appreciated the efforts they made to reduce the burden on smaller manufacturers in the process.

You still haven't addressed my question of compromise regarding the personal freedom for individual ownership of highly lethal weaponry.

[piece-itpete]

The gun ownership to crime info would be more useful if it had LEGAL ownership to LEGALLY owned gun crime. I can go buy a illegal gun right now.

I read not that long ago that 50% of businesses in China are owned by the Chinese military.

Pete

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by flacaltenn

JonL:

You do realize don't you, that a mere 40 years ago, high schools sponsored rifle teams for target shooting on a fairly routine basis. Could have had an incident, but I don't remember any facts relating to high schoolers skirmishing with their school issued match rifles.. Why do you think that was?

I'll answer your question directly.. NO ONE is trusted by me enough to own nukes. Not Obama, not Amadinajob. So those are off the table. I don't need anything swifter than a semi-auto rifle or a handgun in my personal gun locker. HOWEVER -- I'd like to be able to go somewhere and RENT a howitzer for the afternoon. Or maybe actually get a certificate to operate an Abrams Battle Tank during my summer trip to Arizona.

D-Ray:

Yup.. there is a danger that in the nat gas extraction process, you fracture rock and expose the water table to mixing with coal dust or residual petroleum product. But the point is that the eco-whacks are using fracking as the strawdog without understanding the process. Of course, most eco-whack diatribes are short on logic and scientific analysis. You could do the fracking with 100% Perrier water (no fracking fluids) and STILL disturb the water table in some way. Question is -- why are these folks not concerned about the NATURAL risk of living over a huge hydrocarbon vault?

Maybe it's because, undisturbed by hydraulic pressure, these formations have remained stable containers for thousands of years. That was the point in bringing up my former employer's gas storage facility. The structural integrity of the formation is sufficient to pump millions of cubic of expensive gas feet back into the ground.

I was also mentioning the destruction of the natural containment of the gas to explain the natural gas leaks. That is just another risk aside from exposing ground water to other toxic chemicals. You fracture the rock and put the water table at risk, as you mentioned, and in the process you introduce toxic chemicals. That does not sound like a stable operation to me. Indeed, it sounds unconscionable.

Regards,

D-Ray

Regards,

D-Ray

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

The gun ownership to crime info would be more useful if it had LEGAL ownership to LEGALLY owned gun crime. I can go buy a illegal gun right now.

what is the damned difference?

the guns are available because of our archaic laws weather they are bough legal or illegal

Good grief