This is typical of what we are dealing with in this country...

[Ike Bana]

The Freedom Caucus...

Boebert and Green

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

The Freedom Caucus...

Boebert and Green

[Ike Bana]

Statesmanship vs. politics. "Good politics makes good government", something we used to hear in Chicago back in the Daley days (old man Daley and also his son).

Has there ever been "good politics" here in Chicago? Has there ever been "good politics" in this country? Bad politics goes way back, here in the good old USA. Back in the 1840's there were already two generations of "native born" Americans. And of course, as our species is noted for, hostility toward "the other" reared it's ugly head with the politics of the nativist "know-nothings."

And then there's the founding and the Constitution, which was developed and ratified without the issue of slavery being addressed. So I'm going with...no...statesmanship is absent from American government...and absent right out of the gate.

[Mark B]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Statesmanship vs. politics. "Good politics makes good government", something we used to hear in Chicago back in the Daley days (old man Daley and also his son).

Has there ever been "good politics" here in Chicago? Has there ever been "good politics" in this country? Bad politics goes way back, here in the good old USA. Back in the 1840's there were already two generations of "native born" Americans. And of course, as our species is noted for, hostility toward "the other" reared it's ugly head with the politics of the nativist "know-nothings."

And then there's the founding and the Constitution, which was developed and ratified without the issue of slavery being addressed. So I'm going with...no...statesmanship is absent from American government...and absent right out of the gate.

You should have stopped your rant before you took yet another gratuitous crap on the Constitution.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by Mark B

You should have stopped your rant before you took yet another gratuitous crap on the Constitution.

Apparently you have no problem with the slave owning founders creating and ratifying the US Constitution with slavery still in place. Apparently you think that the founders are treated unfairly and that they were just operating as "men who were oriented to their times", eh? Well...bullshit, the western world knew good and goddamn well that slavery was an abomination at the time of the founding, and the motherfuckers didn't do a fucking thing about it. There were a number of European nations that outlawed slavery and slave trade in the 1700's. The northern colonies had already voiced their objections to slavery prior to the ratification of the Constitution...everybody who wasn't a racist, and who saw black people as no biologically different from white people, knew it was wrong. I contend that every one of the founders knew it was wrong...so it was all about the money. It was all about what it would cost southern plantation owners if they no longer had free labor. And when Whitney invented the cotton gin, in the 1790's that was what made slavery really pay. And today, the outlawing of the teaching CRT, of teaching all the goddamn history, is a direct extension of all of this.

The Constitution is a major.problem. A decent document would not allow for the manipulation we see from the right. A decent document would not allow for democratized gun carnage. A decent document would not allow for the interference in the private business of a woman and her physician.

The Constitution was written, leaving slavery and slave trading in place, by and for the benefit of the the slave owning founders. The Constitution was hypocritical crap right out of the gate. "All men are created equal", my ass. Yeah...yeah...I know...it's not in the Constitution it's in the Declaration, so fucking what. Written by the same goddamn hypocrite white supremacists. You think I'm taking a dump on the Constitution? I don't give a flying fuck what you think about my attitude towards the founders and their Constitution.

New York Times - 1619

The 1619 Project and the Long Battle Over U.S. History

[Pio1980]

The far right’s war on “woke” has real-world consequences for the military
https://www.vox.com/2023/7/16/237937...ary-tuberville