Class Barrier to Economic Success

[donquixote99]

Just saw a graph in an article on Vox, here: http://www.vox.com/2016/3/8/11178802...discrimination

The article is pointing out the 'different value of a college degree,' depending on one's economic background. Basically, if when you start out your family's income is less than 185% of the federal poverty level, you will tend not to make the money. On the graph, blue arc for the rich kids, green arc for the non-rich. And the difference is enormous--the blue arc keeps growing long after the green arc has turned downward, and peaks about twice as high. In fact, the blue arc starts at 'entry level' at about the level of the peak of the green arc.

I've added something to the graph that wasn't there. It's what Vox headline promised, but did not explicitly deliver--the why for this huge difference in outcome. I added the crosshatched line, and the label "class barrier."

Even without my addition, this graph is the clearest picture of the class barrier in the US that I have ever seen. Individual anecdotes not withstanding, here's the reality experienced by millions of Americans:

[nailer]

Very cool. I can remember reading back in the 70's about how limited real movement between class actually was, including post war boom America. Your use of "rich" biases.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by nailer

Very cool. Back in the 70's I can remember reading about how limited real movement between class actually was, including post war boom America. Your use of "rich" biases.

Hope the term doesn't bias you against the post! It's a bit loaded to be sure, but has the advantage of informal clarity, I think.

[nailer]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Hope the term doesn't bias you against the post! It's a bit loaded to be sure, but has the advantage of informal clarity, I think.

If we have a two class system, I would define your line as the Have Line.

I'm also wondering what my parent's FPL percentage was when they were raising their children.

An analysis of the Have Line over time would be interesting.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Just saw a graph in an article on Vox, here: http://www.vox.com/2016/3/8/11178802...discrimination

The article is pointing out the 'different value of a college degree,' depending on one's economic background. Basically, if when you start out your family's income is less than 185% of the federal poverty level, you will tend not to make the money. On the graph, blue arc for the rich kids, green arc for the non-rich. And the difference is enormous--the blue arc keeps growing long after the green arc has turned downward, and peaks about twice as high. In fact, the blue arc starts at 'entry level' at about the level of the peak of the green arc.

I've added something to the graph that wasn't there. It's what Vox headline promised, but did not explicitly deliver--the why for this huge difference in outcome. I added the crosshatched line, and the label "class barrier."

Even without my addition, this graph is the clearest picture of the class barrier in the US that I have ever seen. Individual anecdotes not withstanding, here's the reality experienced by millions of Americans:

Two things occur to me here. First, having only a high school diploma seems to be a more limiting factor on earnings than the level of society in which you were raised. The earnings curve for both rich and poor begin at around $20K and maintain fairly parallel tracks throughout working life.

The huge difference occurs among those who have a bachelor's degree where the wealthier students enjoy what appears to be almost a $20K advantage at the beginning of their careers, peaking at roughly $50K edge during their "peak earning years" and staying pretty much the same until retirement. Another interesting thing for the diplomaed is that they actually wind up earling less at the end of their careers than they did at the beginning, earning virtually the same as their non-diplomaed cohorts. Shocking, really.

The second thing that occurs to me is that one possible factor in the relatively less successful poor is that it's likely that many of them grew up in homes where career success wasn't effectively modeled for them. They didn't learn "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People" at their parent's knee, parents who oftentimes themselves never went to college.

I think this may be what's at the root of the problem and I think it points to the absolute necessity of making college at public colleges and universities totally free and even providing, as Finland and other countries do, a stipend so that poor kids can buy books, eat..... stay alive.

Okay, maybe three things. The graph shows too the utter futility of this student loan nonsense. It's the poor who need to take out those loans, not the rich, and it's the poor, due to their lower earnings potential, who will be buried hopelessly in an avalanche of debt and despair, unable even to declare bankruptcy to save themselves from utter ruin.

[Tom Joad]

Having the same degree doesn't mean you are going to fit in.

The classes just don't mix.

I first noticed it in High School.

There I was the kid of a single mom waitress with an eighth grade education dressed like Little Abner in my $2.98 JC Penny shirt while all the rich cool dudes were sportin $9.00 Gants with the fruit loop in the back.

[nailer]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Two things occur to me here. First, having only a high school diploma seems to be a more limiting factor on earnings than the level of society in which you were raised. The earnings curve for both rich and poor begin at around $20K and maintain fairly parallel tracks throughout working life.

It would appear our parent's knew what they were talking about regarding college.

You are correct about the college educated curves, but only until the educated "have nots" hit their heads on DQ's Have Line.

[nailer]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

Having the same degree doesn't mean you are going to fit in.

The classes just don't mix.

I first noticed it in High School.

There I was the kid of a single mom waitress with an eighth grade education wearing my $3.98 JC Penny shirts while all the rich cool dudes were sportin $9.00 Gants with the fruit loop in the back.

In 7th grade there was a band of girls who became fruit loop huntresses.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by nailer

In 7th grade there was a band of girls who became fruit loop huntresses.

Tell me about it.

My 9th grade girlfriend threw me over for a Dude who wore Gants.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by nailer

In 7th grade there was a band of girls who became fruit loop huntresses.

"Fruit Loops"? Man, you guys are babies! We had those things on our shirts (from Frank Leonard's or Eddie Jacobs, nailer) before the cereal ever came out.

They're not "Fruit Loops"! They're "Fink Tabs".