David Harvey "The End of Capitalism"

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by VanishingPoi

The producers, labor, workers themselves determine where the surplus goes.

'All power to labor' is as wrong as 'all power to capital.'

[donquixote99]

Finn, I'm fully willing to accept that your kids are exceptionally talented. Probably 95th percentile or better in the math SATs, right? And they had family tradition to build on, a secure economic background, and parents who understood what a technical education requires and helped them along. God help us if all those advantages can't pave the way for success.

Do you suppose it's valid to want the economy to work for the other 95% too?

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Finn, I'm fully willing to accept that your kids are exceptionally talented. Probably 95th percentile or better in the math SATs, right? And they had family tradition to build on, a secure economic background, and parents who understood what a technical education requires and helped them along. God help us if all those advantages can't pave the way for success.

Do you suppose it's valid to want the economy to work for the other 95% too?

I was responding to the assertion that "people under 30 are screwed on the job venue." If you major in the right discipline, this is not even remotely true, regardless of where you find yourself on the economic spectrum.

In fact, minority kids in technical/scientific disciplines are in even higher demand that middle-class kids and are virtually guaranteed multiple job offers. I personally have been on multiple recruiting trips to traditionally black universities as well as the University of Mayagüez in Puerto Rico actively seeking out minority kids with engineering degrees, while deliberately ignoring graduates of prestigious universities.

It is, of course, true that minority kids need to want to go to school and study in order to succeed. I'm not sure what can be done to inculcate these values, but I can't help but think the best place to start would be with their own families. FWIW, my son's two best friends are first-generation Nigerian and Haitian-American engineering graduates of Florida A&M (a traditionally black university). Their parents came here from their native countries with hardly a dime in the pockets and without formal education and their sons are now highly successful Professional Engineers (one is mechanical, the other electrical).

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by finnbow

I was responding to the assertion that "people under 30 are screwed on the job venue." If you major in the right discipline, this is not even remotely true, regardless of where you find yourself on the economic spectrum.

In fact, minority kids in technical/scientific disciplines are in even higher demand that middle-class kids and are virtually guaranteed multiple job offers. I personally have been on multiple recruiting trips to traditionally black universities as well as the University of Mayagüez in Puerto Rico actively seeking out minority kids with engineering degrees, while deliberately ignoring graduates of prestigious universities.

It is, of course, true that minority kids need to want to go to school and study in order to succeed. I'm not sure what can be done to inculcate these values, but I can't help but think the best place to start would be with their own families. FWIW, my son's two best friends are first-generation Nigerian and Haitian-American engineering graduates of Florida A&M (a traditionally black university). Their parents came here from their native countries with hardly a dime in the pockets and without formal education and their sons are now highly successful Professional Engineers (one is mechanical, the other electrical).

The fact remains that everyone can't be engineers. What's your solution for the bottom half of the bell curve? Odd jobs off the Internet at pennies a shot? See Robert Reich collum in my paper today: The Share the Scraps Economy

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

The fact remains that everyone can't be engineers. What's your solution for the bottom half of the bell curve?

I expect that question to come from Sancho Panza.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

The fact remains that everyone can't be engineers. What's your solution for the bottom half of the bell curve?...

I'm not sure I have the answer, yet I do believe that it's mostly only possible to help those who are also willing to help themselves (in areas such as career development).

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

The fact remains that everyone can't be engineers. What's your solution for the bottom half of the bell curve? Odd jobs off the Internet at pennies a shot? See Robert Reich collum in my paper today: The Share the Scraps Economy

The thing is that despite the Great Depression we always had food on the table. I also had a father that taught me, well Mom taught me also but that had more to do with behavior. So when I showed up at school my stomach was full and I had a decent night's sleep. This is not the case with a lot of children today.

Plus we did not have all those "experts" telling the teachers how to teach which was a distinct benefit.

As for engineers well the IEEE did make me a full member and suggested I really should apply as a senior member.

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

The fact remains that everyone can't be engineers. What's your solution for the bottom half of the bell curve?

Depends upon which side you are on, left or right.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

The fact remains that everyone can't be engineers.

I'm not saying they should. OTOH, it makes perfect sense to me that those getting an education or vocational training in furtherance of their career ambitions should study something for which there is a demand for workers. Unless I'm mistaken, a degree in Underwater Basket-weaving won't result in prospective employers beating a path to your door.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by finnbow

I'm not saying they should. OTOH, it makes perfect sense to me that those getting an education or vocational training in furtherance of their career ambitions should study something for which there is a demand for workers. Unless I'm mistaken, a degree in Underwater Basket-weaving won't result in prospective employers beating a path to your door.

Have you polled those in possession of that degree. You might get a surprise.

John