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Old 02-10-2024, 11:28 AM
wyceeric wyceeric is offline
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Need the perspective of a mental health professional with a deity.

Hey Folks, I'm interested to see if anyone can help me understand something that seems odd to me. More religion, not so much political, but this is the forum that has "religion" in the heading.

The question came up as a result of having my kid assessed for ADD some years back. Our primary care provider referred us to the largest provider of mental health services in our region, which happens to be a Christian organization. While I reject the idea of ADD/ADHD as a mental health concern, as opposed to a regular health concern, (neurodivergence is not equivalent to mental illness), that's a separate question.

One of the questions during the assessment was, "Any delusional behavior; hearing voices, etc.?" To which I responded, "Do you mean something like thinking a deity is attempting to communicate his will, and you then have to discern his intent and act upon it?" "No, not that, or any other form of delusional behavior."

As far as I'm concerned, an adult with an invisible friend who's will he obeys is not qualified to diagnose anyone else as delusional. Period.

So the question I'm asking is, how is it that within the mental health profession, having an invisible friend is not automatic grounds for recusal as relates to diagnosing delusion? Upon what grounds do they get a pass? How is it not the same thing? If the interviewer is going down the check list, and doesn't say, "Wait a minute, I have to answer 'Yes' to these questions, looks like I just diagnosed myself.", that seems not only unprofessional, but dangerous.

If there are any mental health professionals who have relationships with deities, I'd appreciate some clarification. I don't expect to agree, just to understand the perspective.

Thanks

Last edited by wyceeric; 02-10-2024 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 02-10-2024, 02:05 PM
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init4fun init4fun is offline
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As someone who is not at all religious, I'll say this from the viewpoint of an outsider;

You appear to be taking a pretty big leap there, assigning your belief of how you think these religious people operate within their religion, on people you don't really know. How do you know that they all literally (think that) they hear "God's voice in their heads", VS them just following a dusty old manuscript from ages long ago gone by?

The whole "cause God told me to do it" thing hasn't fared too well in modern times (think Jim Jones or perhaps David Koresh here), and as such, I haven't heard too many folks admitting to having daily chat sessions with God where they are being given specific instructions from him (or her, or it), YMMV.

Last edited by init4fun; 02-10-2024 at 02:10 PM.
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Old 02-10-2024, 02:13 PM
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donquixote99 donquixote99 is offline
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Their faith is 'different' than delusions, they will insist. And sometimes I expect it is. Holding the beliefs expected in your identity group is different that seeing and hearing unreal things that are NOT expected by your identity group. In any case, I would assess the care your son receives by the rapport evident between him and the caregivers, and by his status over time, not by 'logic' based on your beliefs about the caregivers beliefs. The latter smacks of rationalized prejudice, actually. And in case you are wondering, I absolutely am not religious.
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Old 02-10-2024, 02:59 PM
wyceeric wyceeric is offline
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We live in an area that is more religious, per capita, than average. I know people who believe that their god communicates with them directly. Not just a few, either. According to them, it's part of the relationship. They express themselves to their god, and it communicates it's will to them. Discernment, (the ability to understand your god's will) is something people think is a gift from their god, that people have to a greater or lesser degree, depending on the person.

You can't make this up.

I understand that not everyone is bought in on this idea to the same extent, but this is a real thing, and it's not rare. At least not around here.

These folks need to not be diagnosing delusion.

He was just there for the ADD assessment, so was not 'cared for' by them, as such. It just seemed like an odd question, given what I know about how seriously folks around here take their relationship with their god.

I don't see a lot of difference between, "I'm certain what my god is telling me.", and "I heard a voice in my head."

Last edited by wyceeric; 02-10-2024 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 02-10-2024, 03:05 PM
wyceeric wyceeric is offline
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I also understand that they will insist that their faith is different from delusion. My question is, what does this look like in practical terms as it relates to their duties as professionals. I still haven't seen any guidelines from a professional organization.

Or, put another way, how do I know that they can tell the difference?

Last edited by wyceeric; 02-10-2024 at 03:13 PM.
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Old 02-10-2024, 04:18 PM
Mark B Mark B is offline
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@wyceeric, it would not be unreasonable to ask your primary care provider to recommend a secular provider of mental health services. I suggest doing some research on such providers in your area prior to that conversation.

Last edited by Mark B; 02-10-2024 at 04:20 PM.
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Old 02-10-2024, 05:00 PM
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Oerets Oerets is offline
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There are many issues with this type of problems in the healthcare system we have in this country.

Insurances seem to be running what the Doctors and providers are able to offer to the ones in need. Your location plays a very large amount in any decision.

One must learn how to fight for what they want and need.


As to the question on religion and care for you and yours. If they can help use them just be a active participant in any care given. For in the end you want help for the one in need.
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Old 02-10-2024, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyceeric View Post
I also understand that they will insist that their faith is different from delusion. My question is, what does this look like in practical terms as it relates to their duties as professionals. I still haven't seen any guidelines from a professional organization.

Or, put another way, how do I know that they can tell the difference?
One can expect that if you got a talk-to-God type doing an assessment, they might see talking to God as possibly more OK than talking to aliens, or invisible giant rabbits, or some other imaginary talker. So the main time his belief gets to be a problem would be if the patient describes talking to God, or Christian-approved things like angels maybe.

I also think that talk-to-God belief may be fairly widespread among the general populace in an area, and still be pretty scarce among the mental health professionals. Still, agree completely with Mark B that you should be able to request a referral to a secular professional if that is your preference.
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Old 02-11-2024, 09:19 AM
wyceeric wyceeric is offline
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When we got the referral, we considered asking for an alternative. Since it was just an assessment for ADD, we figured it wasn't that big a deal since we would be in and out in an hour or so, and that they should be able to handle it competently. It wasn't until that one specific question came up that I began to think maybe we had made a mistake.

If it had been for a real crisis issue, or something that required an ongoing relationship with the organization, there's no way we would have taken him there in the first place. Not a chance.

Another factor is that this was when he was maybe 7-10(?); he's 25 now. I have little idea how the landscape has changed in the intervening 15-18 years, but this area's conservatism makes me think probably not much. I do know that the place we took him is still the 800 pound gorilla in this region, and will be for the foreseeable future. For most people around here, it's what they want- and what they expect. For a lot of folks I know, a referral to a secular service provider would be unthinkable.
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Old 02-11-2024, 10:22 AM
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init4fun init4fun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyceeric View Post
........I have little idea how the landscape has changed in the intervening 15-18 years, but this area's conservatism makes me think probably not much. I do know that the place we took him is still the 800 pound gorilla in this region, and will be for the foreseeable future. For most people around here, it's what they want- and what they expect. For a lot of folks I know, a referral to a secular service provider would be unthinkable.
I say this with no malice whatsoever;

Given what I've quoted, if living in a place not totally governed by religious beliefs is important to you, perhaps it'd be for the best to find a place not so religiously orientated to live? Somewhere outside of the so called "Bible Belt", as it were? I spent some time in Oklahoma and while the people were all really very nice to me, the heavy religious undercurrent that permeated their interactions made me sure I could never live there full time.

I just figure if it means that much to you, and you surely ain't gonna change the religiously charged atmosphere there, why not go someplace where people don't rely so heavily on religion to make their daily decisions?
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