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  #31  
Old 03-08-2017, 11:37 AM
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whell whell is offline
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So, you're not able to answer the question, just recycle talking points? Yes, the Trib and WaPo are simply regurgitating Dem talking points.

The articles you posted cite the Medicare surcharge as an example of a tax cut for the rich. In my post above, I recognized this but also cited the Small Business Tax cut, which would be rolled back under the proposed legislation. Neither you or the articles you cited address this.

So, I'll ask again - how is this a tax cut for the wealthy?
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  #32  
Old 03-08-2017, 11:59 AM
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finnbow finnbow is offline
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Originally Posted by whell View Post
So, I'll ask again - how is this a tax cut for the wealthy?
Among other things,

House Republicans plan to eliminate nearly every tax increase that was included included in the ACA, many of which were levied on high-income earners. Democrats insist that some tax increases were necessary to offset the cost of expanding coverage and overhauling the health-care system to ensure people received a minimum level of coverage.

Republicans say they’ve found a way to pay for wider coverage that doesn’t include taxes on the on the rich, which are the backbone of the current system. The new GOP plan would repeal two of the biggest-ticket taxes in the ACA: a 3.8 percent tax on investment income; and a 0.9 percent levy on income over $200,000 for individuals and $250, 000 for married couples filing jointly. Those two taxes hit fewer than four million households making up the top 2.5 percent of taxpayers, according to IRS data.

“Those taxes raise over $300 billion over a decade,” said Scott Greenberg, an analyst at the conservative-leaning Tax Foundation “The impacts of those taxes are largely on high-income households.”

Wealthy earners would also benefit from a rule to halve the penalty on using money from a Health Savings Accounts on expenses not related to health care”. Current limits allow individuals to directly transfer up to $3,400, and families up to $6,750, into an HSA without paying any taxes on the income.

“They’re very attractive to highly compensated individuals who have already maxed out other tax-preferred retirement plans,” said Gordon Mermin, a senior research associate at the Tax Policy Center. “They can use it in retirement as a retirement account. If it turns out they have health expenses and use it for that, then they’re not paying tax at all.”

Wealthy people already make up the majority of people using the accounts. Families earning over $60,000 made up nearly 65 percent of the total that contributed in 2014, according to recent data from the Treasury Department. Nearly two-thirds of those people earned between $75,000 and $200,000.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ans-for-taxes/
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  #33  
Old 03-08-2017, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by finnbow View Post
Among other things,

House Republicans plan to eliminate nearly every tax increase that was included included in the ACA, many of which were levied on high-income earners. Democrats insist that some tax increases were necessary to offset the cost of expanding coverage and overhauling the health-care system to ensure people received a minimum level of coverage.

Republicans say they’ve found a way to pay for wider coverage that doesn’t include taxes on the on the rich, which are the backbone of the current system. The new GOP plan would repeal two of the biggest-ticket taxes in the ACA: a 3.8 percent tax on investment income; and a 0.9 percent levy on income over $200,000 for individuals and $250, 000 for married couples filing jointly. Those two taxes hit fewer than four million households making up the top 2.5 percent of taxpayers, according to IRS data.

“Those taxes raise over $300 billion over a decade,” said Scott Greenberg, an analyst at the conservative-leaning Tax Foundation “The impacts of those taxes are largely on high-income households.”

Wealthy earners would also benefit from a rule to halve the penalty on using money from a Health Savings Accounts on expenses not related to health care”. Current limits allow individuals to directly transfer up to $3,400, and families up to $6,750, into an HSA without paying any taxes on the income.

“They’re very attractive to highly compensated individuals who have already maxed out other tax-preferred retirement plans,” said Gordon Mermin, a senior research associate at the Tax Policy Center. “They can use it in retirement as a retirement account. If it turns out they have health expenses and use it for that, then they’re not paying tax at all.”

Wealthy people already make up the majority of people using the accounts. Families earning over $60,000 made up nearly 65 percent of the total that contributed in 2014, according to recent data from the Treasury Department. Nearly two-thirds of those people earned between $75,000 and $200,000.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ans-for-taxes/
Do you actually read what you post, or are you just comfortable spouting Dem talking points as recycled by WaPo?

The first focus is of the WaPo piece is the Medicare surcharge. We've already dealt with that, and I still don't have a response to the question I asked.

The second part of - the paragraph highlighted above - is astonishing to me. Now we're defining "wealthy" as folks with earnings in the $60 - $75K range? Really???

Also, this income comparison of individuals who don't have HSA's is very misleading. Individuals on Medicaid - low income - are not going to participate in these plans. Individuals on Medicare are not allowed to contribute to HSA's. That removes a whole lot of samples from the statistics. You've also got to subtract union workers because HSA's aren't generally offered under union health plans. Finally, not every employer offers health savings plans. Of employers offering health plans to employees, just over half also offered a "high deductible health plan". Individuals who aren't enrolled in HDHP's cannot contribute to HSA's.

The point is that the comparison is apples and oranges.
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  #34  
Old 03-08-2017, 02:44 PM
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finnbow finnbow is offline
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Originally Posted by whell View Post
Do you actually read what you post, or are you just comfortable spouting Dem talking points as recycled by WaPo?
Just to make it easy on you as you ape Paul Ryan's disingenuous talking points, TrumpRyanCare is a stingier version of Obamacare that cuts taxes on the rich, cuts Medicaid, and cuts subsidies for lower earners while introducing them for some higher ones. It's opposed by liberals and far-right conservatives alike, along with the AMA, AARP, Heritage, Club for Growth, and bunches of others. You can cheer-lead all you want, but this plan is going nowhere.
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  #35  
Old 03-08-2017, 03:36 PM
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nailer nailer is offline
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Originally Posted by finnbow View Post
Just to make it easy on you as you ape Paul Ryan's disingenuous talking points, TrumpRyanCare is a stingier version of Obamacare that cuts taxes on the rich, cuts Medicaid, and cuts subsidies for lower earners while introducing them for some higher ones. It's opposed by liberals and far-right conservatives alike, along with the AMA, AARP, Heritage, Club for Growth, and bunches of others. You can cheer-lead all you want, but this plan is going nowhere.
Going nowhere may be the plan. If Ryan's plan fails there's still Obama Care to heap blame/derision on.
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  #36  
Old 03-08-2017, 03:46 PM
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finnbow finnbow is offline
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Going nowhere may be the plan. If Ryan's plan fails there's still Obama Care to heap blame/derision on.
At which point, however, they'll own it.
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  #37  
Old 03-08-2017, 03:48 PM
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Oh no. It will be the fault of those terrible filibustering Democrats. They tried their best....
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  #38  
Old 03-08-2017, 04:21 PM
sheltiedave sheltiedave is offline
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Oh no. It will be the fault of those terrible filibustering Democrats. They tried their best....
Yep, you might as well call this the MIT plan, or the posturing plan.
In this case, MIT stands for mom, I tried.
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  #39  
Old 03-08-2017, 04:42 PM
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The ACA is going to die from it's life support bring cut regardless, lack of a better replacement will surely alienate those cut off from affordable health care without an acceptable replacement. The offered plan is not that.
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  #40  
Old 03-08-2017, 05:09 PM
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Tom Joad Tom Joad is offline
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Originally Posted by finnbow View Post
At which point, however, they'll own it.
There is NO WAY IN HELL that the Republicans will ever "own" Obummercare.

The only way the Democrats are going to get that Albatross out from around their necks is if the Republicans repeal it and replace it with their own plan.
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