Lost Freedoms

Boreas · #1 08-31-2010, 05:53 PM

Pete mentioned the subject of this thread in another conversation and I thought about asking him to expand on this point. Then I thought of the fact that more than one person in this group has made similar statements in the past and it's a constant theme among the Tea Party folks.

Now as I said, I frequently hear people complaining about the loss of our freedoms but I never hear specifics except for the freedom to bear arms (which we haven't lost). So, I though, why not start a thread where people who believe that the freedoms we have today have been seriously eroded from those we used to enjoy can enumerate those freedoms.

Perhaps they can describe how those freedoms were lost, what specific actions on the part of the government were responsible, etc. Should be interesting.

John

d-ray657 · #2 08-31-2010, 07:08 PM

If one considers privacy an aspect of freedom, that has been seriously eroded. It is partially a result of government actions and corporate actions. The government actions mostly involve the data collection and wire-tapping that went on as a result of, on one hand, the "patriot" act, and on another, the disregard of the fourth amendment.

The corporate deprivation of privacy has grown with the development of the electronic world. Facebook advertisers use robots to search posts and specifically target account holders on the basis of what they say on their pages. I expect that some of the banner ads we see here use similar software. Companies share databases, spending habits, doctor visits, and just about any information about us that they can compartmentalize and use to make money.

I also feel that the value of free expression has been diminished because of the overwhelming corporate control of the media. Those viewpoints that are the most profitable have the most chance to succeed, with no regard for the intrinsic merit of what is being said. The diminution in the value of free expression also flows from the SCOTUS decision permitting corporations to spend whatever they want to influence electoral results - giving their voice much more emphasis because of their superior resources.

I don't recall seeing any signs about these issues in the reports on tea party rallies.

Regards,

D-Ray

finnbow · #3 08-31-2010, 07:25 PM

Quote:

I don't recall seeing any signs about these issues in the reports on tea party rallies.

I guess Fox didn't provide any instructions in this regard.

BTW good post, Don. I agree completely with your views on privacy.

Another loss is due process. We've had warrantless searches, detention without charges, the seizure of property by law enforcement for minor drug violations, abandonment of US citizens overseas (the kid who went to Yemen looking for a wife and stranded in Cairo), and even traffic ticketing by speed camera (even if you're aren't in the car). Politicians sure love to play the "tough on crime" card. An extrapolation of this thought is the extraordinary incarceration rate in the US. Imprisonment is the ultimate lack of freedom.

I think the Tea Party (and their Fox masters) have been silent on these as well.

noonereal · #4 08-31-2010, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow

I guess Fox didn't provide any instructions in this regard.

.

searing comment

BlueStreak · #5 09-01-2010, 12:03 AM

Other than the issues already mentioned, I can add nothing.
I feel just as free as I always have, well post Navy anyhow.
I don't think I'll ever be as free as I was in High School again,
and I pray that I will never be any less free than I was in the Navy.

But, I do feel the yoke of the Capitalist machine getting heavier every day.

Dave

merrylander · #6 09-01-2010, 07:29 AM

I believe the teabaggers "lost freedoms" are the fredom to let your fellow man starve, or the freedom to ride rouhshod over anyone and everyone. The freedom to own your own Stinger missiles, or 21 shell magazines for their AK-47s.

Although it does not affect me the No Knock warrant simply trased the 4th and 6th Ammendments. Oddly enough there was a woman at the Beckapalooza who bemoaned the loss of the freedom to buy incandescent light bulbs (actually you can buy them, they just can't make them, just as well because GE Reveal are made in China) and I half agree because flourescent lamps bother Florence's eyes - I am simply stocking up.

finnbow · #7 09-01-2010, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merrylander

Oddly enough there was a woman at the Beckapalooza who bemoaned the loss of the freedom to buy incandescent light bulbs (actually you can buy them, they just can't make them, just as well because GE Reveal are made in China) and I half agree because flourescent lamps bother Florence's eyes - I am simply stocking up.

Yep, the riddle is solved. Here's an extended excerpt elucidating, in the eyes of a Tea Partier, the erosion of our freedoms:

"Our freedom is lost. My freedoms are lost. To be able to preach anywhere we want, to have God in our schools, to drive any kind of car we want and if I want to drive a gas guzzler, I can, if I want to eat a lot of sugar and salt, and I shouldn't be forced to buy medical care. To be able to burn the kind of light bulb I want.The list goes on."

It's friggin' tyranny, don't you see? To the barricades!!!

On a serious note, these same nutjobs are trying to deny freedom of religion and assembly to American muslims (in NYC, Murfreesboro and elsewhere), equal treatment under the law to gays in CA, and the freedom to control their own bodies to women all over the country.

Forget the constitution, it's all about the light bulbs!!!

Boreas · #8 09-01-2010, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow

Forget the constitution, it's all about the light bulbs!!!

And sugar! More sugar!

John

piece-itpete · #9 09-01-2010, 08:49 AM

So it ends up vilifying the right again....

I've never been lumped in with the tea partiers before. I bet they appreciate a beer though

At least a good fire and a good time.

If you've read that thread and don't see any examples I can't help. If you believe you have the right to take others' property to distribute as you see fit I can't help. If you've never read any non-propaganda history that quotes source material I can't help much (you don't have any frame of reference and will generally suspect what I say because 'I'm a right leaning Christian'). If you believe that the courts and the feds should be involved in every decision I can't help.

If you ponder that the Declaration as originally written said 'and the pursuit of property' you might be headed down the right path.

The police state discussed is simply a logical outgrowth of the power you have allowed the government to take, generally with approbation from the left and even the right. The government must enforce the rules you wanted it to make, because government is good and the people can't be trusted.

I'm using 'you' in the plural form btw. How do you like it?

Pete

finnbow · #10 09-01-2010, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

So it ends up vilifying the right again....

I've never been lumped in with the tea partiers before. I bet they appreciate a beer though

At least a good fire and a good time.

If you've read that thread and don't see any examples I can't help. If you believe you have the right to take others' property to distribute as you see fit I can't help. If you've never read any non-propaganda history that quotes source material I can't help much (you don't have any frame of reference and will generally suspect what I say because 'I'm a right leaning Christian'). If you believe that the courts and the feds should be involved in every decision I can't help.

If you ponder that the Declaration as originally written said 'and the pursuit of property' you might be headed down the right path.

The police state discussed is simply a logical outgrowth of the power you have allowed the government to take, generally with approbation from the left and even the right. The government must enforce the rules you wanted it to make, because government is good and the people can't be trusted.

I'm using 'you' in the plural form btw. How do you like it?

Pete

Are you talking about imminent domain? If so, it's addressed specifically in the Fifth Amendment, wherein it states: "... nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

If you're talking about income taxes, they're specifically addressed in the 16th Amendment, "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

In that I apparently have only been exposed to "propaganda history," can you please clarify what it is you're talking about?