Pope John Paul's Beatification ....

[whell]

Originally Posted by flacaltenn

What exactly IS this humungeous threat from the "religious right" that impacts your life?

From a lengthy post, I teased out this question, which I think is worthy of discussion. Does the left sincerely believe that there is anyone who wants to see (in First Amendment terms) a government mandated, "established" religion in this country?

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by whell

From a lengthy post, I teased out this question, which I think is worthy of discussion. Does the left sincerely believe that there is anyone who wants to see (in First Amendment terms) a government mandated, "established" religion in this country?

you mean to tell me that you don't?

i doubt this very much

[piece-itpete]

I still vote my conscience

Flac, I do indeed drink Margaritas on drunken Mexican day.

Originally Posted by d-ray657

I'd say that an analogous figure would be Socrates or Plato, or Stephen Hawking. .....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPKEk2aHjow

Originally Posted by noonereal

How could they not be?



Christ was a classic liberal and that is whose teachings they follow.

Matt 20:1-16 "For the Kingdom of Heaven is like a man who was the master of a household, who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard.

When he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard. He went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace.

To them he said, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you.’ So they went their way. Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did likewise. About the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle. He said to them, ‘Why do you stand here all day idle?’ "They said to him, ‘Because no one has hired us.’ "He said to them, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and you will receive whatever is right.’

When evening had come, the lord of the vineyard said to his steward, ‘Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning from the last to the first.’ "When those who were hired at about the eleventh hour came, they each received a denarius.

When the first came, they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise each received a denarius. When they received it, they murmured against the master of the household, saying, ‘These last have spent one hour, and you have made them equal to us, who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat!’ "

But he answered one of them, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Didn’t you agree with me for a denarius? Take that which is yours, and go your way. It is my desire to give to this last just as much as to you. Isn’t it lawful for me to do what I want to with what I own? Or is your eye evil, because I am good?’ So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few are chosen."

I'm trying to fit that into a liberal worldview

Pete

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

Does the left sincerely believe that there is anyone who wants to see (in First Amendment terms) a government mandated, "established" religion in this country?

Not directly, of course. That would go down in a heap of ashes, constitutionally speaking. What the religious seems to prefer is a piecemeal approach (abortion, gay marriage, railing against (never gonna happen) Sharia, imposing their view of "family values," supporting intelligent design in the classroom, perpetuating the myth that Christians have a monopoly on virtue, perpetuating the myth that Christians are being persecuted in the US, ....)

I guess some of this stuff may find some traction were its vocal proponents not such friggin' hypocrites.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by whell

From a lengthy post, I teased out this question, which I think is worthy of discussion. Does the left sincerely believe that there is anyone who wants to see (in First Amendment terms) a government mandated, "established" religion in this country?

No. And that is my entire point. Keep religion OUT of government and vice versa. That's what YOU don't get.

Dave

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Not directly, of course. That would go down in a heap of ashes, constitutionally speaking. What the religious seems to prefer is a piecemeal approach (abortion, gay marriage, railing against (never gonna happen) Sharia, imposing their view of "family values," supporting intelligent design in the classroom, perpetuating the myth that Christians have a monopoly on virtue, perpetuating the myth that Christians are being persecuted in the US, ....)

I guess some of this stuff may find some traction were its vocal proponents not such friggin' hypocrites.

+1. This is what I'm talking about. Do you EVER hear anyone saying, "I vote Democratic because they reflect my religious values."? I don't. But I hear it coming from the right, regarding the GOP, ALL of the time. Despite the fact that, realistically, there is almost nothing Christ-like about the Republican platform either.

Dave

[piece-itpete]

So, how do you keep folks religious beliefs from influencing their vote?

Pete

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

So, how do you keep folks religious beliefs from influencing their vote?

Pete

By showing them that the politicians pandering to their religious values are nothing but cynical hypocrites?

[piece-itpete]

I'd say that's a two edged sword.

Pete

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by finnbow

By showing them that the politicians pandering to their religious values are nothing but cynical hypocrites?

Bingo! Maybe once they realize they are being had, they will learn to look beyond the pseudo-religious hullaballoo of ambitious politicians and keep their spiritual beliefs in the church and in their hearts where it belongs?

One can only hope.

Dave