|
|
We appreciate your help
in keeping this site going.
|
|
04-18-2012, 03:14 PM
|
|
Area Man
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 27,407
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by merrylander
A corporation is a "free association of individuals"? Pete that is the biggest laugh I have had all week.
Speak all they want, they should not be allowed to buy elections. I don't know what the Roberts court has been smoking but they sure are not Camels.
Here is a thought, if a corporation is a person then run one for Congress.
|
Or sentence one to execution in the next wrongful death case.
The whole notion is absurd on it's face. And it is NOT designed to advance the wishes of every employee collectively, it is designed to advance the wishes of management and NO the the two are NOT always the same.
That's ridiculous.
Dave
__________________
"When the lie is so big and the fog so thick, the Republican trick can play out again....."-------Frank Zappa
|
04-18-2012, 03:14 PM
|
|
Possibly admin. Maybe ;)
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Land of the burning river
Posts: 21,098
|
|
Not the business made of employees, but the corporation made up of shareholders.
Pete
__________________
“How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.”
|
04-18-2012, 03:20 PM
|
|
Area Man
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 27,407
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by piece-itpete
Not the business made of employees, but the corporation made up of shareholders.
Pete
|
Where does the money come from, Pete? The employees are not part of the organization? Managers and shareholders generate all of that revenue on their own with help from no one?
On which planet does this fantasy take place?
Furthermore, your post exposes the root of many of our problems today, IMO.
The only folks that matter are the managers and shareholders, the rest of us are just parasites, feeding off of them?
That's the attitude that needs to go, IMHO.
__________________
"When the lie is so big and the fog so thick, the Republican trick can play out again....."-------Frank Zappa
Last edited by BlueStreak; 04-18-2012 at 03:22 PM.
|
04-18-2012, 03:23 PM
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: San Diego California
Posts: 3,261
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobabode
If someone wants to dramatically change the way the country is run they should take it to the people through the normal process of legislation. What the Roberts court has done is to water down (actually, pissed in the face of) the respect and confidence that we had in the court of last resort. (Well, what little was left after their crowning the Shrub in 2000, you know.)
|
No, it is the court that needs to protect political speech against the silencing of a hostile legislature.
Quote:
Roberts, IIRC , at his confirmation had stated that he was against activism from the bench and the very next year pulled that Citizens United decision out of thin air. The two sides had already come to a compromise deal and it was narrowly focused on the issue before the court. Never in the 200+ years of the court has this kind of activism been seen. Law is a slowly built up succession of little steps but this one was a freaky gyration of convolutions and outright fables that I think everyone was left slackjawed and stunned by it. No one could believe much less mount any argument against this absolutely brazen power grab.
|
One could say the same thing about Austin v. Michigan. Have you read Kennedy's dissenting opinion in the Austin case? The suppression of speech, any speech, ought be severely restricted when there is not a clear physical danger to life regardless of assumed potentialities of unfairness IMHO. Inasmuch that corporations are great contibutors to our way of life and generally compete amongst themselves, there is little reason to unfairly lock them out of campaign involvement.
__________________
Dear Optimist: Unless life gives you water and sugar too, your lemonade will suck.
|
04-18-2012, 03:37 PM
|
|
Possibly admin. Maybe ;)
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Land of the burning river
Posts: 21,098
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStreak
Where does the money come from, Pete? The employees are not part of the organization? Managers and shareholders generate all of that revenue on their own with help from no one?
On which planet does this fantasy take place?
Furthermore, your post exposes the root of many of our problems today, IMO.
The only folks that matter are the managers and shareholders, the rest of us are just parasites, feeding off of them?
That's the attitude that needs to go, IMHO.
|
Of course, that's not my argument, and not what I'm saying. I think you know that.
Pete
__________________
“How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.”
|
04-18-2012, 03:43 PM
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: San Diego California
Posts: 3,261
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStreak
On which planet does this fantasy take place?
Furthermore, your post exposes the root of many of our problems today, IMO.
The only folks that matter are the managers and shareholders, the rest of us are just parasites, feeding off of them?
That's the attitude that needs to go, IMHO.
|
No one said that employees do not matter, but the corporation exists for the shareholders and not the employees. The employees contract their labor to the employer. I liken it to, say, leasing a piece of machinery. I know it sounds callous. This doesn't mean that employees are not valuable or have an inherent worth beyond their capacity to provide labor, but it does mean that their interests are not as important to the corporation as the interests of the shareholders.
It must also be pointed out that our higher standard of living has been brought about by the corporate structure and its concomitant increase in efficiency. Corparations do indeed have divergent and often competing interests, thus, as Obama's campaign has demonstrated, there will be plenty of competition with corporations participating in elections.
__________________
Dear Optimist: Unless life gives you water and sugar too, your lemonade will suck.
|
04-18-2012, 03:54 PM
|
|
Area Man
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 27,407
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by piece-itpete
Of course, that's not my argument, and not what I'm saying. I think you know that.
Pete
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhunter
No one said that employees do not matter, but the corporation exists for the shareholders and not the employees. The employees contract their labor to the employer. I liken it to, say, leasing a piece of machinery. I know it sounds callous. This doesn't mean that employees are not valuable or have an inherent worth beyond their capacity to provide labor, but it does mean that their interests are not as important to the corporation as the interests of the shareholders.
It must also be pointed out that our higher standard of living has been brought about by the corporate structure and its concomitant increase in efficiency. Corparations do indeed have divergent and often competing interests, thus, as Obama's campaign has demonstrated, there will be plenty of competition with corporations participating in elections.
|
And that needs to change. You honstly don't see where likening people to "...a piece of machinery" might lead to problems? Did you read any of what I posted here. It already has. We've been here before. The reaction to "Welfare Capitalism" was not just unfavorable, it was violent.
In my opinion, "Citizens Untited" is antithetical to a free society. It is further consolidation of power into the hands of moneyed interests rather than the will of the common populace. It subjugates the common folk to the will of corporate bosses and their shareholders.
One man, one vote. Any other path leads to tyranny.
Dave
__________________
"When the lie is so big and the fog so thick, the Republican trick can play out again....."-------Frank Zappa
Last edited by BlueStreak; 04-18-2012 at 03:58 PM.
|
04-18-2012, 04:22 PM
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,348
|
|
Damn, this is just like watching All Star Wrasslin'.
What we need it a digital version of the folding chair so that we can bash one another in the head.
In the meantime, our esteemed leaders will be down in the locker room having a drink and splitting up the money.
Chas
|
04-18-2012, 08:05 PM
|
|
Area Man
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 27,407
|
|
Bugger off. I was getting all deep-n-intellectual-n-shit. Then you had to come along and ruin the mood.
__________________
"When the lie is so big and the fog so thick, the Republican trick can play out again....."-------Frank Zappa
|
04-19-2012, 07:09 AM
|
|
Resident octogenarian
|
|
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 20,860
|
|
What amazes me is how the righties are only too willing to sell themselves into economic slavery, it is completely astounding.
__________________
Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.
Eleanor Roosevelt
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:49 AM.
|