Ford F-150: All aluminium body

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Bigerik

Toronto doesn't have citizens.

And for all Mr Fords.... Foibles, he is actually a very fiscally responsible mayor.

Btw, he is a good old, right wing, conservative. His base would make the Republicans proud.

His hypocrisy would too. Down here, they would be saying, "Oh, so what, who doesn't like to party every now and then?" Until a Liberal gets caught doing the same. Then, they'd roll out the guillotine.

Dave

[piece-itpete]

Gas taxes are horribly regressive and would effect the poor the worst. But hey, we've already priced them out of the used car market, isn't that what they make buses for?

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

And, if we ever do get a politician who's honestly trying to do what's good for everyone, half the country will hate his guts for it.

More like 80-90% my take.

Pete

[Bigerik]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Gas taxes are horribly regressive and would effect the poor the worst. But hey, we've already priced them out of the used car market, isn't that what they make buses for?



More like 80-90% my take.

Pete

How regressive are job losses? How regressive is wiping out one of the biggest industries in the country? How regressive is the country giving up technological leadership?

[piece-itpete]

Because of not increasing the gas tax?

Pete

[Bigerik]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Because of not increasing the gas tax?

Pete

Yup. The US government basically gave a huge chunk of the auto industry to Japan, by forcing the auto manufacturers to bear the burden of gas mileage regulation, rather then establishing a level playing field for all. Basically, with the implementation of CAFE, they distorted the marketplace and forced the US auto manufacturers to produce cars that their customers did not want, usually at a loss, rather then allowing the market to decide what would be sold. Basically, they completely overtaxed the engineering abilities and resources of all of the big three, and by doing so, nigh onto bankrupted all three by 1980. They never did recover from this.

Rather then just having to invent new technologies to deal with government mandated emissions controls, which negatively effected the gas mileage, they forced the big three to also increase fuel economy at the same time. The Japanese did not have to deal with fuel economy. Because of their expensive gas, they had already dealt with this issue.

[piece-itpete]

So government interference in private markets damaged an entire industry for decades, never to fully recover?

I'll say this - the big 3 were arrogant. Mr Honda (a GREAT character) bought a Vega, fixed it to the then-upcoming emissions standards and gave it to GM. GM ignored it. Per Brock Yates.

Pete

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Gas taxes are horribly regressive and would effect the poor the worst. But hey, we've already priced them out of the used car market, isn't that what they make buses for?



More like 80-90% my take.

Pete

The poor don't own cars, (Much less Cadillacs.), they walk everywhere or take the bus. So, it wouldn't affect them at all. They already pay stupid high prices buying most of their junk food from convenience stores.

Remember, man; I live in the 'hood. I see them every day. It's not what St. Ronnie and Jabba the Radio Jock made it out to be.

Dave

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Bigerik

Yup. The US government basically gave a huge chunk of the auto industry to Japan, by forcing the auto manufacturers to bear the burden of gas mileage regulation, rather then establishing a level playing field for all. Basically, with the implementation of CAFE, they distorted the marketplace and forced the US auto manufacturers to produce cars that their customers did not want, usually at a loss, rather then allowing the market to decide what would be sold. Basically, they completely overtaxed the engineering abilities and resources of all of the big three, and by doing so, nigh onto bankrupted all three by 1980. They never did recover from this.

Rather then just having to invent new technologies to deal with government mandated emissions controls, which negatively effected the gas mileage, they forced the big three to also increase fuel economy at the same time. The Japanese did not have to deal with fuel economy. Because of their expensive gas, they had already dealt with this issue.

Put simply; $6/gallon gas means no one wants gas guzzlers like the ones I drive, anymore.() Fuel is conserved, the Big Three must meet the market demand at the same time the foreign manufacturers are doing the same, but of their own design and on their own time. Not because congress has taken to designing cars for them.

But, here's a point to ponder Erik;
How is the GOP to bend over organized labor and point it's boney finger at "big government" if policies are made that keep the blame squarely in management/engineerings court?

You're losing sight of the true objective of the game; Support CAFE so we can blame CAFE when it all goes to shit. It also has the side benefit of having Detroit as a poster child to shove in everyone's face ad nauseum.

See how that works?

That's how people who truly LOVE America treat the people who live here.

Dave

[piece-itpete]

Funny, in my hoods' hood there are a lot of cars, with the working poor using them to... drum roll... go to work

Pete

[MrPots]

Originally Posted by Bigerik

Yup. The US government basically gave a huge chunk of the auto industry to Japan, by forcing the auto manufacturers to bear the burden of gas mileage regulation, rather then establishing a level playing field for all. Basically, with the implementation of CAFE, they distorted the marketplace and forced the US auto manufacturers to produce cars that their customers did not want, usually at a loss, rather then allowing the market to decide what would be sold. Basically, they completely overtaxed the engineering abilities and resources of all of the big three, and by doing so, nigh onto bankrupted all three by 1980. They never did recover from this.

But US manufacturers are meeting those mileage standards with better quality cars that get great mileage proving they could have done it all along. They just needed a nudge. And how much better for everyone. Sounds to me like the government "forced" the automakers to give consumers exactly what they wanted. A v6 mustang with 305 horse power that gets 31 MPG? Incredible. A high quality mid sized sedan that gets 50 MPG? Did someone say impossible?