"..as America is no more a Christian Nation than it is a Jewish or a Mohammedan..."

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

If I found something and did the same thing you guys would not be as blase' about it.

Pete

You know what they say about assumptions, Pete.

John

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Whatever floats your boat. There is a reason that would be attributed to the Treaty, not a direct quote by Adams.

If I found something and did the same thing you guys would not be as blase' about it.

Pete

Blessed is the man who expects nothing, for he shall never be disappointed was the ninth beatitude.

By the way, it really pisses me off that you're using an unattributed quotation from Alexander Pope. It's as if you want us to believe you coined the phrase.

John

[piece-itpete]

My avatar is a picture of him, and I mentioned him on the last one.

Pete

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

It sure looks intellectually dishonest to me.

Okay Pete. Stick with me on this. I agree... but.

You are technically correct. He didn't say it. We wouldn't attribute it to him in a newscast. Here's the 'but'.

But what is your point? Are you suggesting that he didn't believe it? Later you suggest that every member of Congress was also party to it. Are you suggesting that they didn't believe it either? Okay, would George W Bush have signed such a document? Would the Republicans in Congress have agreed to that language in the treaty? I can tell you right now the answer is no on both counts.

What does that tell us? It tells us that they were indeed much more liberal in their positions on religion than we are today. Which, I believe, is counter to your argument. You have in fact demonstrated exactly the point the miss-quite was attempting to make.

So you are right. Which in fact proves that you are wrong.

[piece-itpete]

My point is simply that you wouldn't attirute it to him as a quote.

Further than that, nothing. As a matter of fact it doesn't do me any favors, because folks today can't see the realpolitik that drove it.

Pete

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Without looking this up, I seem to recall that this language was part of a treaty signed by Adams. Was it from a treaty with the Barbary States?

So, what's your beef, Pete?

John

Treaty of Tripoli.

[BlueStreak]

I don't understand why it bothers you so much. I really don't.

I don't understand why so many don't understand that the government being neutral in matters of religion can strengthen religion. Look at it this way; One of the reasons I shy away from organized religion is because I honestly believe it has become little more than a political tool. A means of steering public opinion. And from what I have read over the years, I get a pretty solid feeling that the founders felt the same way. That keeping the church separate from government not only protects the government from theocratic influence, but it also protects the church from undue influence by scheming politicians. Were they religious men? Maybe so. Maybe they also wanted to protect their religion from future politicians who would pervert it to serve some nefarious goal? Ya think?

Did they not live in a time when they were persecuted by a British King that insisted everyone share his religious beliefs, and punished them if they didn't, Pete?

I don't care what you want to believe. Go to your church, temple, mosque, coven, or whatever. Worship rocks for all I care. Have fun. Enjoy. But leave me alone. You have your relationship with the almighty and I have mine. Why do we need the fucking government telling us what to believe? What does it matter if Obama doesn't "lead the nation in prayer" on National Prayer Day? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't recall the last president that did. The whole thing is rediculous, IMHO. Maybe I just wasn't paying attention, because it's something I couldn't care less about? Perhaps. But, that's the whole point; I'm FREE to NOT care. Ya know--Freedom, Pete. Freedom from having some pain-in-the-ass biblethumper try to shame me into join his flock, and doing as I'm told like all of the other "sheeple".

And everytime I hear some goofball like Palin sreaming "This is a Christian Nation!", I picture a pickup full of rednecks coming to bust my head for not showing up at Sunday Services, ala the Taliban.

Or taxing me for not being a good Christian ala King George III? Hmmm?

Dave

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Treaty of Tripoli.

Right. Algeria, Libya, Morocco & Tunisia were called (by us) the Barbary States and the location was called the Barbary Coast. Our Military action against them was our first military action beyond our own shores. The Treaty of Tripoli ended those hostilities.

John

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Right. Algeria, Libya, Morocco & Tunisia were called (by us) the Barbary States and the location was called the Barbary Coast. Our Military action against them was our first military action beyond our own shores. The Treaty of Tripoli ended those hostilities.

John

Same-Same, then.

Dave

[merrylander]

Surely someone remembers the words "From the halls of Montezuma, to the shores of Tripoli . . .".