GOP to Jobless: Drop Dead

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by whell

We're addressing two separate subjects: marginal or effective rates (you) versus taxes on W-2 earnings (me). You suggest my numbers are misleading by posting something unrelated. Interesting debate strategy...

Okay, I'm trying here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but "marginal" tax rates refer to the higest level of tax you pay. We have a graduated taxation system and the marginal tax rate applies to the highest level of taxes you pay. It is a number, as I understand it, that is much higer than your average tax rate. Your average tax rate, again, as I understand it, refers to the percentage of tax you pay on all your income- that is, at all the rates that apply to you up to and including the portion of your income on which you pay the marginal rate.

So, no, I have no idea what you mean when you simply say "taxes on W-2 earnings". That doesn't say anything. Do you mean averge tax rate? If so, you're making your case worse as I'm reasonably certain that your 44% fiugre is speaking to a marginal rate. No way anyone is paying 44% on ALL their W-2 earnings.

Try this:

http://www.dinkytown.net/java/TaxMargin.html

If you are single, no dependents and make $1M a year (pretty sure that's none of us) you *still* only pay 32.4% average tax rate on W-2 income, putting nothing in an IRA, nothing in a 401k and with NO DEDUCTIONS AT ALL. I can't figure out a way to make more of a "worst case scenario" as I'm almost sure that would be virtually no one in the United States.

So, yes, please tell me where I'm doing anything but giving you the most favorable counter to your argument. If you are talking about average tax rates your figures are even MORE misleading than I made them out to be.

[Fast_Eddie]

Okay, yeah, I'm pretty sure I got that right:

http://taxes.about.com/od/preparingy...ax-rates_2.htm

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Ford's a great example. HE made something that people wanted, not his customers, and he (kinda) invented a new way to do it too. And changed the world to boot.

If poor folks drive the economy, Obama's doing a great job!

Pete

The U.S. Economy was 75% consumer driven. The top 1% beggared the consumer and wages did not keep up with inflation. So what really happened is that all those smart-ass businessmen shot themselve in the foot.

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by whell

Current Highest Federal income tax rate = 35%
FICA Tax = 6.2%
Medicare Tax = 1.45%
Total tax on income - 42.65

Let's try this, because I think I now understand what you mean. A hypothetical example. You believe there is an American, let's call him Rube, who has a sallary of $275,000 a year. If I follow you, you believe that Rube had deducted from his check, or pays at tax time a total of 275,000 * 42.65%. Right? You think Rube pays the government $117,287 a year?

Using the IRS Calculator for our friend Rube "Your anticipated income tax is $72,781" again assuming NO deductions, single, no contributions to tax deferred... etc. Again, NO ONE does that. Zero people. But even with that, 72,781/275,000= 26.4%.

Is there some Tea Party propoganda that leads you to believe this? If so, I can see why they're so angy. They think people are paying insane amounts of tax, almost higher than anyone in the world!

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

Let's try this, because I think I now understand what you mean. A hypothetical example. You believe there is an American, let's call him Rube, who has a sallary of $275,000 a year. If I follow you, you believe that Rube had deducted from his check, or pays at tax time a total of 275,000 * 42.65%. Right? You think Rube pays the government $117,287 a year?

Using the IRS Calculator for our friend Rube "Your anticipated income tax is $72,781" again assuming NO deductions, single, no contributions to tax deferred... etc. Again, NO ONE does that. Zero people. But even with that, 72,781/275,000= 26.4%.

Damn you, Eddie, with all your fact-based arguments!
You shouldn't let truth get in the way of indulging in a good fantasy.

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Damn you, Eddie, with all your fact-based arguments!
You shouldn't let truth get in the way of indulging in a good fantasy.

Man, I'm pretty sure that's what he meant. No wonder he thinks taxes are too high. I'd be marching on Washington myself if I paid 40% of my income in taxes.

[whell]

Originally Posted by d-ray657

Changing the definition midstream. Interesting debate tactic.

Regards,

D-Ray

I know you're not suggesting here that taxable income is the same as W-2 income. "Taxable income" can be derived from a number of sources. W-2 income = wages. I was pretty clear about what I was referring to: W-2 income. Why try to make this into something its not?

[whell]

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

Let's try this, because I think I now understand what you mean. A hypothetical example. You believe there is an American, let's call him Rube, who has a sallary of $275,000 a year. If I follow you, you believe that Rube had deducted from his check, or pays at tax time a total of 275,000 * 42.65%. Right? You think Rube pays the government $117,287 a year?

Using the IRS Calculator for our friend Rube "Your anticipated income tax is $72,781" again assuming NO deductions, single, no contributions to tax deferred... etc. Again, NO ONE does that. Zero people. But even with that, 72,781/275,000= 26.4%.

Is there some Tea Party propoganda that leads you to believe this? If so, I can see why they're so angy. They think people are paying insane amounts of tax, almost higher than anyone in the world!

If you want to try calculating it with actual wages, the 35% tax bracket starts with income earned above $373650/yr. And yes, individuals do earn and are taxed on income at that level. Also, the increased Medicare withholding on wages/investment income starts in 2013, so that may be why you're not finding it in 2010 tax calculation data.

[Fast_Eddie]

(edited- even THOSE numbers weren't right)

Estimated Federal tax with no itimized deductions etc. $105,331. $6,621 max for SS. 1.45% for Medicare is $5,417.

105,331 + 6,621 + 5,417 = 117,369

117,369/373,650 = 31.4%

Where's the 42.65%?

[piece-itpete]

Is this apples to apples, country to country, are we talking total taxation to total taxation - we have state county and local taxes as well.

I'd like to see that.

Pete