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04-20-2014, 07:17 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Sierras
Posts: 14,151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell
Jenny Granholm did the same asinine thing here in MI. She decided that some 20+ percent of the power generated in MI must come from alternative sources. Hefty could cover that is typical in MI during the winter months precludes solar, so that leaves wind as the only alternative. Too bad wind isn't a reliable enough generation source to predictably offset any portion of the energy that the state needs to feed the grid. In the meantime, electric rates are going steadily northward.
These artificial state mandates on power generation are idiotic, and need to be repealed.
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How else does one break a monopoly other than through mandates. Also did Granholm unilaterally decide this?
From the link you provided: "The newest wind turbines are nearly 500 feet tall and will be needed in Michigan to try to meet the demands of Proposal 3, the 25 percent renewable energy mandate, if voters pass the amendment in November."
So the Michigan voters passed this correct?
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White Christian Nationalism:
Freedom for us, order for everyone else, and violence for those who transgress.
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04-20-2014, 09:44 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 13,016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeamOn
How else does one break a monopoly other than through mandates. Also did Granholm unilaterally decide this?
From the link you provided: "The newest wind turbines are nearly 500 feet tall and will be needed in Michigan to try to meet the demands of Proposal 3, the 25 percent renewable energy mandate, if voters pass the amendment in November."
So the Michigan voters passed this correct?
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No. The former Gov tried to incraese the number of "green jobs" in the state and this was one of her grand strategies. Her admin and the 1/2 of the state legislature wouldn't move on allowing additional power generation failites in the state unless she got her mandate, so the issue was finally settled legislatively, no public vote involved, in 2008. Proposal 3 would bump the mandate up to 25%, and I sincerely hope that proposal falls squarely on its ass.
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04-20-2014, 09:47 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 13,016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Joad
The only good Koch, is a dead Koch.
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Right. Also, the punny little phrase Joad kill comes to mind.
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04-20-2014, 10:49 PM
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Persona non grata
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 12,654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell
Right. Also, the punny little phrase Joad kill comes to mind.
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"The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
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04-20-2014, 11:05 PM
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Admin
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Behind the Orange Curtain in California
Posts: 37,188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell
No. The former Gov tried to incraese the number of "green jobs" in the state and this was one of her grand strategies. Her admin and the 1/2 of the state legislature wouldn't move on allowing additional power generation failites in the state unless she got her mandate, so the issue was finally settled legislatively, no public vote involved, in 2008. Proposal 3 would bump the mandate up to 25%, and I sincerely hope that proposal falls squarely on its ass.
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A vote was taken and the governors proposal won, sounds like democracy to me.
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I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
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04-21-2014, 06:15 AM
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Resident octogenarian
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 20,860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell
Yeah, that's progress I guess..for "back home". Here, the meter transmits data directly to the utility. No need to send someone out at all.
By the way, in most states the utlity is regulated so much that the utilitiy has to ask the state whether or not its OK to blow its nose.
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Oh sure and they only installed the smart ass meter here last fall. Canada is so far ahead of here in power generation it will take another century for the yahoos here to catch up.
BS they have so many lobbyists hammering on the pols with "petitions" (usually in the form of $100 bills) that they always get what they want.
Want to see what life is like with no regulations, take a South Korean ferry.
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Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.
Eleanor Roosevelt
Last edited by merrylander; 04-21-2014 at 06:18 AM.
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04-21-2014, 06:27 AM
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Resident octogenarian
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 20,860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donquixote99
Of course, hydro is solar. The sun does the work of vaporizing water that then precipitates to flow through turbines. Ontario Hydro and Quebec Hydro's power should be cheap; they have no fuel cost.
I'm more than half-convinced the best utility model is the old Bell 'monopoly.' We had 99.99999% reliability, and we had Bell Labs. Good stuff. What I don't know is what was different with them, compared to the scheming energy companies.... Though they are fundamentally different businesses. Bell was basically a network provider, a service business, while the electric providers are manufacturers/distributors.
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Sorry DQ Quebec is very much hydro since they did the huge James Bay project and New York state is glad they did or they would be freezing in the dark.
Ontario 'Hydro's' last big electric plant was at Niagara Falls, since then starting with the Pickering Candu reactor they have been 100% nuclear with the Bruce Peninsula being the biggest installation. I suspect that there is probably a big cable running under Lake Ontario to Ohio. Of course their nukes do not require enriched uranium and might even run on thorium.
Yeah breaking up Ma Bell was dumb, but public ownership is really the only way to go with electric power generation. Trying to get all those dinky little power companied to agree on a nationwide grid is like herding cats.
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Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.
Eleanor Roosevelt
Last edited by merrylander; 04-21-2014 at 09:00 AM.
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04-21-2014, 07:27 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 13,016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobabode
A vote was taken and the governors proposal won, sounds like democracy to me.
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Yep, the Dems had the Exec office and 1/2 the State Legislature that that time, so the democracy was producing a flat-lining economy with a business-unfriendly tax structure, and stupid laws to boot: like the alternative energy mandate.
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04-21-2014, 09:43 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: NE Bamastan
Posts: 11,049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell
Yep, the Dems had the Exec office and 1/2 the State Legislature that that time, so the democracy was producing a flat-lining economy with a business-unfriendly tax structure, and stupid laws to boot: like the alternative energy mandate.
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The notion that power conglomerates are trustworthy without effective incorruptible oversight is unacceptable as well as far as letting them dictate the terms of doing business. Impressing stockholders doesn't necessarily equate to responsible public service or ethical business practices.
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I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.
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04-21-2014, 08:00 PM
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reflexionar
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Oregon
Posts: 2,273
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I find it ironic that our rates here (40 miles from Bonneville Dam) are as high as they are. We sell wholesale power to locations considerably farther away at far less than what we pay.
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“Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.” Douglas Adams
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