A question - can we fall back?

[MikeCh]

With all the HUGE spending looming in the near future with Nationalized Medicine, repaying the Stimulator, repaying the Auto Bailouts, Bank Bailouts, etc. etc. etc. .......is it possible that "IF" these ventures are "SEEN" eventually as bad decisions, will we as a country have a way out?

As an example: If everything goes the way of Nationalized Medicine (and not toward using the two tools in place already...Medicare, Medicaid) and things get spun up for full production; processes and procedures are written up by the volumes; hoards are hired to "manage"; funds are spent in the near-trillions ALL within the current presidency tenure (could be four or eight years depending).....IF, IF it all stacks up to be a MASSIVE mistake and we as a country recognize it, CAN we ever go back to the private venue?

I guess what I'm getting at, is that this president seems to be railing BIG BIG items into place with extremely damaging results if things don't "play out" as suggested.

Will we ever be able to go back to Private Medicine if the Government run Medicine doesn't pan out? Is this (what we are about to dive into) the point of no return?

Mike

[Grumpy]

Will be uncharted waters. Lots of what ifs that IMO they will only keep throwing good money after bad at...

[Twodogs]

Government never shrinks. Once they get something, or more over, "control" of something, that's it. Take this example if you will; Obama and the left congress say that the economy has turned a corner and is improving. By all accounts I see daily, they may well be right (or telling the truth). If this is indeed the case, and only 5% or so of the stimulus has been put into the economy, why not cancel the rest. After all, it was only to keep the entire world from spinning into a fiery depressed abyss right? If we're going to make it now, how about reigning back on at least some?

[soundhound]

Originally Posted by MikeCh

Will we ever be able to go back to Private Medicine if the Government run Medicine doesn't pan out?

i hope not. but why would you want to? would it not be more prudent to make it pan out?

i've heard a lot of excuses from the pro-privatized health-care folk. it's all a bunch of manure if you ask me. of course they are against socialized medicine, they are making a fortune. allow me to dispell a few of the myths:

1) socialized medicine would take away my free choice of health care providers.

i don't see why it would. if you required medical care, and didn't want to go to a public clinic, i'm sure there would be some doctors more than willing to take your cash.

for many, the choice is get healthcare, or eat. and for many, there is no choice.

2) quality of care would diminish.

manure. the same people who are treating you now would be treating you then. pride in their job and compassion for those they treat would keep them right on providing the best care they possibly could.

3) our country can't afford it.

what can it afford? but seriously folks, we're paying through the nose for healthcare now. our country spends more on healthcare than any other. and the costs are reflected in other areas as well. remember that a healthy workforce is a productive workforce. look, the government is paying one way or the other.

4) with the government in charge, the system would be a cluster-f***.

okay, i can't argue with this one, however it would be better than nothing at all. yes, the government is inefficient and cumbersome, but it does work. naturally there would be problems with the system. but these could be worked through and corrected just as we now attempt and occasionally succeed fixing the many other government run programs.

in the end, face the facts. privatized medicine has failed. too many people aren't getting it, or at reduced levels. too many people are being ruined financially because of it. we are losing our manufacturing base partially due to it. it is being abused by the industry itself. as a whole, we are a nation of un-healthy people.

next time you hear someone talking about the ills of socialized medicine, stop to think about who they work for.

[merrylander]

I will argue with one point you made soundhound, why would having the government in charge be any worse than having Aetna or US Healthcare in charge? Believe me I was covered by both of these organizations at one time or another during my working days, they make Medicare look like a benevolent grandmother. I never had this sort of grief in Canada with the single-payer plan, I chose my own doctors, saw some pre-eminent specialists for my eyes and osteopathic problems. I paid $53/month for the family plan and was taxed 0.8% on my salary. Correction 0.8% on my taxable income.

The question is not that we can't afford it, what we can't afford is the existing FUBAR system.

PS: When John Bonehead speaks out in Congress about the horrors of the government making medical decisions someone should ask him when the effing Republicans are going to stop making medical decisions for women. He is no doctor nor does he play one on TV.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by MikeCh

the Auto Bailouts, Bank Bailouts,

The US government is a secured lender. At worse we will be repaid all monies lent from the sales of their asserts. At best we will make a fair profit.

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by merrylander

I will argue with one point you made soundhound, why would having the government in charge be any worse than having Aetna or US Healthcare in charge?

Because NO ONE is more greedy then the US goverment. Specially with the Dems holding our wallets. They are spending what we dont have and if they aint careful we are all gonna be even broker.

Lets not even get in to the paperwork clusterfuck they will slap us all with. Anyone remember the last one with medicare.

[Twodogs]

I likes my health care just fine.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by Twodogs

I likes my health care just fine.

I'd bet your uninsured neighbor is not so happy.

If you want to talk about stifling small businesses, look at the cost of health care to the entrepreneur. I know many who have closed shop for this reason. (Even got married to acquire benefits so they could work for themselves.)

[MikeCh]

Originally Posted by soundhound

i hope not. but why would you want to? would it not be more prudent to make it pan out?

i've heard a lot of excuses from the pro-privatized health-care folk. it's all a bunch of manure if you ask me. of course they are against socialized medicine, they are making a fortune. allow me to dispell a few of the myths:

1) socialized medicine would take away my free choice of health care providers.

i don't see why it would. if you required medical care, and didn't want to go to a public clinic, i'm sure there would be some doctors more than willing to take your cash.

for many, the choice is get healthcare, or eat. and for many, there is no choice.

2) quality of care would diminish.

manure. the same people who are treating you now would be treating you then. pride in their job and compassion for those they treat would keep them right on providing the best care they possibly could.

3) our country can't afford it.

what can it afford? but seriously folks, we're paying through the nose for healthcare now. our country spends more on healthcare than any other. and the costs are reflected in other areas as well. remember that a healthy workforce is a productive workforce. look, the government is paying one way or the other.

4) with the government in charge, the system would be a cluster-f***.

okay, i can't argue with this one, however it would be better than nothing at all. yes, the government is inefficient and cumbersome, but it does work. naturally there would be problems with the system. but these could be worked through and corrected just as we now attempt and occasionally succeed fixing the many other government run programs.

in the end, face the facts. privatized medicine has failed. too many people aren't getting it, or at reduced levels. too many people are being ruined financially because of it. we are losing our manufacturing base partially due to it. it is being abused by the industry itself. as a whole, we are a nation of un-healthy people.

next time you hear someone talking about the ills of socialized medicine, stop to think about who they work for.

You hear and believe what you want from your sources....I hear and believe what I want from my sources and we are both likely wrong to some degree

I would still like to know if what we are headed into is the "point of no return".