Taxes: how low is low enough? - Page 2

Fast_Eddie · #1 10-02-2009, 11:04 AM

Oh, let me point something out- I have a little problem with the chart in the link above. They call it the "Discretionary Budget". What they mean is they took out Social Security, Medicade and Medicare. The logic is that you can't really cut those. I agree you can't, but it is manufactured a bit to make the Military spending look bigger.

However, I wish it had everything in it. When you see it that way, Social Security, Medicade, Medicare and Military Spending are the whole budget. There's not a single other segment that would make a difference. You can kill everything else in the budget and you don't make a dent.

So two choices. Cut one of those. Or if you don't think we can, raise taxes. There are no other answers.

Fast_Eddie · #2 10-02-2009, 11:09 AM

Found the 1% figure twice for "welfare". 1% isn't even a start. That's if you kill the entire program.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare...nancial_aid%29

piece-itpete · #3 10-02-2009, 12:52 PM

I don't mean to be contrary all the time. Really.

But...

If you figure in what we will owe, in other words unfunded liabilities, I bet it changes the outlook just a bit:

Snip: Bottom line: Taxpayers are now on the hook for a record $59.1 trillion in liabilities, a 2.3% increase from 2006. That amount is equal to $516,348 for every U.S. household. By comparison, U.S. households owe an average of $112,043 for mortgages, car loans, credit cards and all other debt combined.

Endsnip.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...l-budget_N.htm

I would say have a nice day, but our financial state is truly horrifying. Have a.. day?

Pete

Fast_Eddie · #4 10-02-2009, 11:30 AM

Here's another look at it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...federal_budget

All "other discretionary" according to this is 17%. All of it. Everything that isn't Defense, Social Security, Medicade, Medicare, Interest, or what they call "other mandatory". That last one would be worth looking into. But still, it's 10%. In other words, about 73% of the budget is the above. There is no way to make a real dent without looking into them. So where do you cut? And what politician can ever get elected on a platform of "we need to thrash military spending and Social Security". Good luck with that ad.

Only one other option. And it won't win you any elections either. But we need to demand it before we run this ship so far aground there's no getting it off. Raise taxes.

Fast_Eddie · #5 10-02-2009, 11:42 AM

Another great chart:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Re...993_-_2008.png

Fast_Eddie · #6 10-02-2009, 11:59 AM

If only there were some way to get health care from the government. Think what we would save. Oh, I forgot. That's Socialism. And that's bad.

But yes. If we want to cut costs it has to come from Military spending.

Fast_Eddie · #7 10-02-2009, 01:02 PM

Pete, I think we're saying the same thing. My question is how do you fix it? I'm thinking the only way is to raise taxes or cut military spending. Not sure we can actually get anyone elected who would do either.

piece-itpete · #8 10-02-2009, 01:16 PM

It occured to me, that we saw the same problem, but so many on both sides were agreeing today (I have more time to read than post) I thought I'd let it go

And I know we disagree mightily on the solutions! lol

To use that USA Today info, if we are currently struggling to make the payments on $112K, how on earth can we make them on $516?

Pete

Fast_Eddie · #9 10-02-2009, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

It occured to me, that we saw the same problem, but so many on both sides were agreeing today (I have more time to read than post) I thought I'd let it go

And I know we disagree mightily on the solutions! lol

To use that USA Today info, if we are currently struggling to make the payments on $112K, how on earth can we make them on $516?

Pete

We could cut military spending and raise taxes.

I guess my subversive reason for this thread is to point out that the Neo-Con strategies are killing us. Activist foreign policy is expensive and doing it while lowering taxes is putting a gun in our mouth.

We need to get real about taxes. We lowered them. It didn't work. And we need to get real about our role on the world stage. That's the part of Ron Paul's message I like.

Nobody comes thorugh on cutting costs because there's nothing to cut. You can hate it, but that's how it is. Social Security, Medicade and Medicare aren't going away. And most on the right are against saving the money on military spending.