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[Kamakiri]

Since I myself have been affected by being unemployed, this is a great spot for not only discussions of the why and the future, but to network opportunities, give tips and advice to those just beginning the journey or at the end of it, and to ask and answer questions for those of us who have no choice but to "work for the government"

My presence here has been spotty the last few days, because I've had some career counseling and resume review. Some unexpected opportunities are presenting themselves for me personally, but nothing concrete has come to pass.

So, here I am . Who's in the club? Or afraid of being?

[glen65]

Originally Posted by Kamakiri

Since I myself have been affected by being unemployed, this is a great spot for not only discussions of the why and the future, but to network opportunities, give tips and advice to those just beginning the journey or at the end of it, and to ask and answer questions for those of us who have no choice but to "work for the government"

My presence here has been spotty the last few days, because I've had some career counseling and resume review. Some unexpected opportunities are presenting themselves for me personally, but nothing concrete has come to pass.

So, here I am . Who's in the club? Or afraid of being?

I have two questions,
How's your health?
Are you allowed to drive?

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by Kamakiri

My presence here has been spotty the last few days, because I've had some career counseling and resume review. Some unexpected opportunities are presenting themselves for me personally, but nothing concrete has come to pass.

Hope something comes together soon. And hope it's better than what you left.

Originally Posted by Kamakiri

So, here I am . Who's in the club? Or afraid of being?

I've been affraid I was going to lose my job my entire profesional career. Had a bad case of it over the holidays, but I'm feeling a little better at least short term.

I can maybe bring one other bit of perspective to this as well. Aside from being nervous about my own job, I do find myself in the position of being the hatchet man as well. Good times.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

Hope something comes together soon. And hope it's better than what you left.



I've been affraid I was going to lose my job my entire profesional career. Had a bad case of it over the holidays, but I'm feeling a little better at least short term.

I can maybe bring one other bit of perspective to this as well. Aside from being nervous about my own job, I do find myself in the position of being the hatchet man as well. Good times.

Nothing worse than being the hatchet man. Even if you want to punch the SOB in the mouth, it's hard to tell him he's fired. Especially in today's market.

I don't envy you.

Chas

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by Charles

Nothing worse than being the hatchet man. Even if you want to punch the SOB in the mouth, it's hard to tell him he's fired. Especially in today's market.

You ain't kiddin' brother. When I got here had to do a few. It was my first time and my first job running a department. I actually thought about quitting once I was done. There's no money that makes it worth it. Worst job ever. You're looking across the desk at someone who did nothing wrong and has a family at home and you're telling them they don't have a pay check. Can't help but think about what that's going to be like when they get home.

It's easier when its for cause, but still horrible.

[Charles]

I remember years ago I had to fire the neighbor kid, he was just a dud. Almost made me sick, but I finally worked up the gumption and told him, "Jim, I hate to do this, but I've got to let you go."

Once I saw the smile on his face, I finally made the connection. Jim never wanted a job, his Momma MADE him come ask me for a job.

That made me feel a little better, but I still despise passing out walking papers.

Chas

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by Charles

I remember years ago I had to fire the neighbor kid, he was just a dud. Almost made me sick, but I finally worked up the gumption and told him, "Jim, I hate to do this, but I've got to let you go."

Once I saw the smile on his face, I finally made the connection. Jim never wanted a job, his Momma MADE him come ask me for a job.

That made me feel a little better, but I still despise passing out walking papers.

I remember back in the 70's one of the first people I had to let go was someone I had "carried" for a long time. When I told him he would be let go he was shocked. He demanded to know why if he was not producing why was he not told by me? I told him I never told him because I did not want him to feel bad and since I could get things done anyway why upset him.
He told me that I had not been fair to him and that by not being honest with him no matter what my intent gave him no opportunity to become productive.
He was right.

After that I fired many other people over the years but never had a bad experience again as I was always very clear on expectations and reviewed performance. In fact I had several people apologize to me when I fired them and even had people seek me out years later to thank me for all I had done for them in spite of having to fire them eventually.

Still it was never pleasant.

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by noonereal

I remember back in the 70's one of the first people I had to let go was someone I had "carried" for a long time. When I told him he would be let go he was shocked. He demanded to know why if he was not producing why was he not told by me? I told him I never told him because I did not want him to feel bad and since I could get things done anyway why upset him.
He told me that I had not been fair to him and that by not being honest with him no matter what my intent gave him no opportunity to become productive.
He was right.

After that I fired many other people over the years but never had a bad experience again as I was always very clear on expectations and reviewed performance. In fact I had several people apologize to me when I fired them and even had people seek me out years later to thank me for all I had done for them in spite of having to fire them eventually.

Still it was never pleasant.

That's the key. Every time I say anything to an employee I have a voice in the back of my head "what if you have to fire this person down the road?" If an employee of mine gets praise you can be damn sure they earned it. And if they're not pulling their weight you can be *very* damn sure they know it.

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by noonereal

I remember back in the 70's one of the first people I had to let go was someone I had "carried" for a long time. When I told him he would be let go he was shocked. He demanded to know why if he was not producing why was he not told by me? I told him I never told him because I did not want him to feel bad and since I could get things done anyway why upset him.
He told me that I had not been fair to him and that by not being honest with him no matter what my intent gave him no opportunity to become productive.
He was right.

After that I fired many other people over the years but never had a bad experience again as I was always very clear on expectations and reviewed performance. In fact I had several people apologize to me when I fired them and even had people seek me out years later to thank me for all I had done for them in spite of having to fire them eventually.

Still it was never pleasant.

I've been fortunate in my career to put several people back to work through the arbitration process. You have just described one of the important facets of just cause - notice. Performance based discipline needs to be progressive discipline - performance based discharges that are not preceded by progressive discipline will more often than not be overturned as an "ambush." (assuming the employee is one of that small minority of people who have the protection of a just cause provision in a collective bargaining agreement)

Not only is progressive discipline an important aspect of just cause from a labor law perspective, but it is really sound management. The cost of turnover is enormous. If a company can avoid the cost of finding and training a new employee by taking the time with an existing employee to correct performance issues, it serves the interest of both. I know that from a union perspective, employees who have been given adequate opportunity to correct performance/production issues and have failed to do so are not likely to see a grievance over their discharge proceed to arbitration.

Layoffs are tougher situations. Employees in those instances lose their jobs even when they have performed well. Sometimes, they lose their jobs because those above them in the food chain have not done their jobs well. The only good side of an economic layoff is that it carries with it no stigma of having been discharged for misconduct or poor performance, and thus has a lesser negative impact on future opportunities.

Good luck to all out there who are facing the uncertainties of the job market. I guess I'm "lucky." When our business is bad, I don't get laid off - I just work without getting paid.

Regards,

D-Ray

[VinylHanger]

I'm in the club. 6 weeks unemployed here. It was a bit different in my case as we ended up shutting the whole shop down, 9 of us gone on the same day. We knew it was coming and pretty much picked the day we wanted to end it.

I'm actually enjoying the fact that I can turn this ship of my life into a new direction. I'm spending lots of time with my daughter and my wife when she's not working, so it ain't all bad.

The thing that will get us through is that we pretty much don't have any real bills these days, and moved into a rental that is half the rent of our old place, and as an added bonus, it's nicer too. If we need to we can drop all the fun stuff: sattelite, internet, etc. and get by even easier, but with unemployment and my wife working, we should be fine. I have slowed pretty much all my hobby spending these days and just concentrate on the basics. Not a bad place to be. Hopefully it will be a short vacation and I'll be back making money again, but I'm trying to look at it with a positive outlook.