Did We Win the Iraq War (or even the Surge)

[finnbow]

Andrew J. Bacevich, professor of history and international relations at Boston University and a retired Army officer, wrote an interesting article on whether or not history will view our incursion in Iraq as a victory. Seemingly not.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...65a_story.html

[ebacon]

Well that last paragraph is a thought provoker, ain't it?

[BlueStreak]

Dang you, Pat. Another book goes on the "To Read" list......................

Only time will tell if we won the Iraq War. And right now, it isn't looking so good. And, I believe that once our presence in Afghanistan wanes radical Islamism will return there even more quickly, just as it did after Soviet withdrawl. It does not please me to say this, at all, I just believe it to be true. As ugly as it was there was a reason why Saddam Hussein had to maintain such a brutal regime......It's called radical religion. There is just something about the depth of religious brainwashing that makes it extremely hard to break. That being said, I do not support maintaining a permanent presence in such places. In places such as Afghanistan, permanent occupation is nothing but a colossal money pit.

Personally, I believe that Americans are seduced by war so easily because it's been almost 150 years since one was fought on our soil. If massive death and destruction was as fresh in the memories of Americans as it is in the minds of Europeans and Asians our attitude might be substantially closer to theirs. I also believe, sadly, that many Americans still cling to the silly notion of American invincibility and the idea that we can remain a superpower forever. When this country starts to exist solely to maintain it's military, (and I fear we are dangerously close to that if we aren't already there), it will no longer be a place worth fighting for. (IMHO.)

Regards,
Dave

[icenine]

I spent my 42nd birthday in Iraq. I imagine if I would have died there it would have of course been bad but at least I would have lived a little over half a life. Many Americans who died there were just out of high school, basically not even started on their lives. The average age of killed in action was 27.

In my heart of hearts I think Dick Chaney had always wanted to invade Iraq since the first Gulf War and perhaps masterminded the whole thing. Who knows. I also think sometimes George Bush is one of these guys who believe because they are born again they have some sort of approval from God to engage in things after "praying about it" for awhile. For most people you pray about not getting sick or what kind of car to buy, or what to do in a family crisis. Not start wars or invade countries. Now to cut him some slack we were all recovering from 9-11, and the President did have sort of a blank check to fight the war on terrorism. Unfortunately good judgement was not one of W's strong points. He made a huge mistake. And I believe if he had to do all over again he would never had invaded Iraq.

I hope someday that Iraq will be a nice place with a representative democracy and that the people who live there are able to enjoy the wealth of their oil. I know I am optimistic but it would be nice to think that all those who died there did not sacrifice their lives in vain. I do not think they will become a client state of Iran.

Yeah and I think the surge was sort of bullshit too. I think what really made the difference was that the Sunni insurgents were paid off by Petraeus in hard American cash. The people in Anbar were sick of Al Queda in Iraq and the civil war with the Shites. I think that is what really ended the main conflict. However today the same Sunnis are not at all happy with Shite government that has been installed in Baghdad.

Well at least Obama got us of that mess. Hopefully he gets us out of Afghanistan. Guess what...throwing your weight around is one thing. Invading countries and burning down cities is easy if you have the resources we do. Now getting the people whose country you just destroyed do what you want? Impossible....

I do not blame the MIC...it is just a resource. The Commander in Chief and the American people are the ones who decide to go to war or not.

[ebacon]

ice,

Thanks for your thoughtful post. What is MIC? I'm slow with TLAs ( Three Letter Acronymns )

[bobabode]

Military Industrial Complex

[ebacon]

Ahhh. Thanks.

[icenine]

Originally Posted by ebacon

ice,

Thanks for your thoughtful post. What is MIC? I'm slow with TLAs ( Three Letter Acronymns )

thanks!

[icenine]

Many people have forgotten one thing about the Surge...it was a recognition that the previous military strategy of the Bush Administration was a failure. We had invaded the country with too few troops and not provided enough security. So the Surge was really Bush saying I have prosecuted the war badly and not provided security to Iraq, now I am going to put some more troops in because we need it. Sort of odd that today it is seen as some sort of great military strategy. Sort of like calling the Fire Department after most of the house has burnt down because you were using a garden hose to fight an out of control fire.

[merrylander]

Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld were the chief instigators for invading Iraq. Frankly our military commanders were inept, General Franks had Bin Laden at Tora Bora and he should have called in bunker busters from Diego Suarez, but he was runing the war from Florida and you do not fight wars with a remote. But as long as multi-national corporations run the government we will still maintain the military and all those overseas bases, just to protect their greedy arses.