Slippery Slope - The Definition of Ambition

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by JJIII

Gotta pay off those student loans ya know.

That shows that there are advantages to dropping out of school.

[ebacon]

There is also nothing wrong with flipping burgers for a living. The historic root of the McDonald's chain shows that. The founders loved making burgers. The difference between then and now is who makes the money.

When the highest income tax bracket was punitive, as it should be, the richest people were those that loved their work. Let's face it, if a person bumped against the $10 million/year ceiling (or whatever it was) by running fast food restaurants, then he loved fast food restaurants. At the same time the fast food market was big enough that there could be many players in it.

Today the market structure has changed. Since the tax rate is basicly flat it does not matter how much money a person makes or how he makes it. There is no limit. The net result is that there are very few players in the fast food market (McDonald's, Yum!, and one or two others). Their executives make extraordinary money, probably couldn't cook their way out of a family picnic, and at the same time are rewarded by investors for reducing costs by cutting employee pay and benefits. Those investors, by the way, have nothing to do with the restaurant industry -- they just want to mooch off of it.

The model repeats in every traditional business, be it office supplies, agriculture, manufacturing, etc. etc. Basicly all the low fruit has been picked. That's where people like Flacaltenn come in. They want something to mooch off of but are ont he outside looking in. So they have to try to cling onto an unsuspecting inventor, use him for all he's worth, and then spit him out. Rinse, repeat. That racket is called venture capital. Every once in a while it hits home run such as Google but that is exceedingly rare. Most of the money ends up being spent on equipment that ends up on eBay when the clusterf*cking relationship goes south.

People that have traveled abroad know what a real economy looks like. People live in smaller houses, they make less money, but they do what they have a natural tendency to do, whether it is making burgers or making heart valves.

The system breaks down when it tries to force every young person to pay for an education that qualifies him to make heart valves, when in fact the society could use more burger flippers and farmers to reach full employment. Now, again, that assumes the economy is somewhat self-sufficient. If it allows using slave labor abroad then things get messy and self-government becomes challenging. The richest will be the ones using the most slaves. On top of that the richest will also be the ones paying the politicians no matter what party they belong to.

It's a nasty situation and it's perpetuated by greed and flat taxes. That's why the greedy need the Tea Party platform. It provides sympathetic votes from the group that believes the crap that everyone can be in the one percent.

All I know is some rich people have gone mad. One of them built a sailboat that is so big it can't fit under the Golden Gate Bridge FFS. Now he wants to sell it and build a different one. I have one word for that dude -- you have enough. Let someone else have a little.

I don't recall how he made his money. I think it was in some stupid consumer crap that he has made by slaves. Let Americans make that stuff and pay them. Yeah, he might have to live with the humility of only having a 100' yacht but I say fuck him.

[ebacon]

Fascinating.

I just found this video on the internet. It is made by a zoologist that applies game theory to model animal behavior. He wrote a book about selfishness in the zoological context and political parties latched onto it as scientific justification for their political philosophies.

The video is about an hour long. I guarantee it is worth it. You will not want your hour back.

http://hitchensism.tumblr.com/post/8...part-1-richard

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by ebacon

There is also nothing wrong with flipping burgers for a living. The historic root of the McDonald's chain shows that. The founders loved making burgers. The difference between then and now is who makes the money.

When the highest income tax bracket was punitive, as it should be, the richest people were those that loved their work. Let's face it, if a person bumped against the $10 million/year ceiling (or whatever it was) by running fast food restaurants, then he loved fast food restaurants. At the same time the fast food market was big enough that there could be many players in it.

Today the market structure has changed. Since the tax rate is basicly flat it does not matter how much money a person makes or how he makes it. There is no limit. The net result is that there are very few players in the fast food market (McDonald's, Yum!, and one or two others). Their executives make extraordinary money, probably couldn't cook their way out of a family picnic, and at the same time are rewarded by investors for reducing costs by cutting employee pay and benefits. Those investors, by the way, have nothing to do with the restaurant industry -- they just want to mooch off of it.

The model repeats in every traditional business, be it office supplies, agriculture, manufacturing, etc. etc. Basicly all the low fruit has been picked. That's where people like Flacaltenn come in. They want something to mooch off of but are ont he outside looking in. So they have to try to cling onto an unsuspecting inventor, use him for all he's worth, and then spit him out. Rinse, repeat. That racket is called venture capital. Every once in a while it hits home run such as Google but that is exceedingly rare. Most of the money ends up being spent on equipment that ends up on eBay when the clusterf*cking relationship goes south.

People that have traveled abroad know what a real economy looks like. People live in smaller houses, they make less money, but they do what they have a natural tendency to do, whether it is making burgers or making heart valves.

The system breaks down when it tries to force every young person to pay for an education that qualifies him to make heart valves, when in fact the society could use more burger flippers and farmers to reach full employment. Now, again, that assumes the economy is somewhat self-sufficient. If it allows using slave labor abroad then things get messy and self-government becomes challenging. The richest will be the ones using the most slaves. On top of that the richest will also be the ones paying the politicians no matter what party they belong to.

It's a nasty situation and it's perpetuated by greed and flat taxes. That's why the greedy need the Tea Party platform. It provides sympathetic votes from the group that believes the crap that everyone can be in the one percent.

All I know is some rich people have gone mad. One of them built a sailboat that is so big it can't fit under the Golden Gate Bridge FFS. Now he wants to sell it and build a different one. I have one word for that dude -- you have enough. Let someone else have a little.

I don't recall how he made his money. I think it was in some stupid consumer crap that he has made by slaves. Let Americans make that stuff and pay them. Yeah, he might have to live with the humility of only having a 100' yacht but I say fuck him.

Holy Cow, that is about the best post I have ever read in my life.

Awesome.

Dave

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Lately, I've read an interesting comparison between college graduates in the early 1960s as opposed to those of today. According to this author, it seems more students in the early '60s were more interested in contributions they could make in their fields. Especially in Science and Engineering. Making their mark, so to speak. Of course making money is what people have always wanted, but then it was considered more important to gain a solid reputation in your profession----first.

Today, it would seem, the emphasis is on choosing the most lucrative career path---whatever that might be, regardless of whether there is any real passion for the work or not.

And, we wonder why we have problems?

Regards,
Dave

I believe JF influence the former.....Ask not...

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Lately, I've read an interesting comparison between college graduates in the early 1960s as opposed to those of today. According to this author, it seems more students in the early '60s were more interested in contributions they could make in their fields. Especially in Science and Engineering. Making their mark, so to speak. Of course making money is what people have always wanted, but then it was considered more important to gain a solid reputation in your profession----first.

Today, it would seem, the emphasis is on choosing the most lucrative career path---whatever that might be, regardless of whether there is any real passion for the work or not.

And, we wonder why we have problems?

Regards,
Dave

I believe JFK influenced the former.....Ask not...

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Holy Cow, that is about the best post I have ever read in my life.

Awesome.

Dave

Holy shit.

I agree.

[CarlV]

Great post indeed, thanks for putting the time into it.

The Winchester Mystery House in San Jose is another good one story,somewhat similar to the sailboat story.
It did put people to work I'll admit though in all my years I have never bothered with that freak show.
http://www.winchestermysteryhouse.co...winchester.cfm



Carl

[ebacon]

Thanks guys. It's hard to draw a line between different flavors of capitalism. I've been trying for about four years and each time I got shouted down as being a so*ialist. Each time I picked myself up, dusted myself off, and tried to learn more. Solving the problem has been a big onion to peel, but I think this morning I finally got to the center when I stumbled on that vid. All it took was typing the right words into Google. The magic combination was "Ayn Rand game theory". Bingo.

In previous intellectual debates wih Ayn Rand supporters I dug deeper and always hit a brick wall. They had scientific proof in the book "The Selfish Gene".

I can't express how relieved I was to finally see a video from the author and he had a simple explanation -- they are using the book wrong.

Whew.

Second to that experience was the time I called a Soviet sociologist and told him that I think Ayn Rand is a Soviet agent. He immediately told me, almost reflexually, that I was a conspiracy theorist. Being called a conspiracy theorist by a Soviet sociologist is kind of an honor.

[ebacon]

This thread is dedicated to Paul Wilmott, Mike Osinski, and all scientists that have the patience and oratory skill to show and explain the boundary between theory and reality. I am an indebted student and thank you for not charging me for bits of your knowledge.