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  #21  
Old 11-28-2013, 07:13 AM
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donquixote99 donquixote99 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ike Bana View Post
Oh...the poor, oppressed people of this country, forced to change their insurance plans. Victimized by teh evul Obamacare. Oh woe is them on a stick. When the people of this country were being forced to change their health plans and doctors, by insurance companies every couple of years (for the last 4 decades), when the people of this country were forced out of their PPO into some piece of shit HMO plan by their employers who could no longer afford the PPO plans (read...maximize profits), was the country rising up over it? No. When it's at the hands of the insurance industry or employers over and over again...not a peep out of anybody.

But when it's driven by a government program that will provide coverage for 30 million uninsured/uninsurable Americans, including disadvantaged children all across the fruited plain, then it's a catastrophe and an outrage.

This "I have to change my doctor/my plan." whining is just another dose of more right-wing "business good/government bad" bullshit.
You are suggesting the attacks are driven by sincere ideological belief. I fear they are mainly driven by a cynical coordinated anti-Democratic propaganda campaign. Although, if course, those reached by the propaganda may have 'sincere beliefs.'
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  #22  
Old 11-28-2013, 07:56 AM
Ike Bana Ike Bana is offline
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Originally Posted by donquixote99 View Post
You are suggesting the attacks are driven by sincere ideological belief. I fear they are mainly driven by a cynical coordinated anti-Democratic propaganda campaign. Although, if course, those reached by the propaganda may have 'sincere beliefs.'
Au contraire. I was not suggesting that at all. As far as the politics goes, it's completely ideologically driven.

That said...IMO at the core of it all, the problem with health care in this country comes down to the self-absorbed people of this country. Republicans and Democrat Americans alike. The great majority of whom like their employer supported health insurance just fine, and don't give a shit in my hat for their 30 million fellow Americans without insurance or the 40,000 or so of them who have been needlessly dying every year for no other reason than the lack of decent health care.

If the American people really wanted a decent, fair and affordable health care system, we would already have one. A single payer system, just like most Europeans have and like Canadians have, and have had for three decades or more. But not us. Nope...we're Americans we like our health care system. The system that gives us crap life expectancy and infant mortality outcomes for twice the money of the next most expensive Euro system.

Last edited by Ike Bana; 11-28-2013 at 08:00 AM.
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  #23  
Old 11-28-2013, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ike Bana View Post
Au contraire. I was not suggesting that at all. As far as the politics goes, it's completely ideologically driven.

That said...IMO at the core of it all, the problem with health care in this country comes down to the self-absorbed people of this country. Republicans and Democrat Americans alike. The great majority of whom like their employer supported health insurance just fine, and don't give a shit in my hat for their 30 million fellow Americans without insurance or the 40,000 or so of them who have been needlessly dying every year for no other reason than the lack of decent health care.

If the American people really wanted a decent, fair and affordable health care system, we would already have one. A single payer system, just like most Europeans have and like Canadians have, and have had for three decades or more. But not us. Nope...we're Americans we like our health care system. The system that gives us crap life expectancy and infant mortality outcomes for twice the money of the next most expensive Euro system.
I believe most Americans feel they have "earned" their employer sponsored healthcare and don't want anyone, especially not the evil government under the Dark Overlord, screwing with it. Or, at least this is what they have been conditioned to think.

I, however will never understand why anyone wants to be dependent on an employer for healthcare.....or anything for that matter, really. I would love to tell my employer stick his health plan up his poop chute. But, I can't because I can't afford it and I don't believe this is any accident. I think the system was designed to keep you dependent on work and the reason why rightwing business owners hate any sort of social safety net is because it weakens our dependence on THEM and then we make them pay for it.

Some claim this is "immoral". I call it "emancipating". Screw the Koch brothers, their flunkies and their colleagues. They can just give people incentive to work, rather than try to starve us into doing it on their cheapskate terms. Bastards.

Love,
Dave
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Last edited by BlueStreak; 11-28-2013 at 08:42 AM.
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  #24  
Old 11-28-2013, 09:23 AM
Ike Bana Ike Bana is offline
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Absolutely. I've lost track of how many colleagues and friends over the years stayed in miserable and sometimes abusive employment situations because of health issues or a child's health issues. The combination of post WWII economic and workplace situations that generated this monstrosity are to blame. Easy fixes for wage and price controls and tax benefits in those years are to blame. Greed and control in later and recent years are to blame.

The delivery of health and mental health services should never, ever have been linked to employment.
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  #25  
Old 11-28-2013, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ike Bana View Post
Au contraire. I was not suggesting that at all. As far as the politics goes, it's completely ideologically driven.

That said...IMO at the core of it all, the problem with health care in this country comes down to the self-absorbed people of this country. Republicans and Democrat Americans alike. The great majority of whom like their employer supported health insurance just fine, and don't give a shit in my hat for their 30 million fellow Americans without insurance or the 40,000 or so of them who have been needlessly dying every year for no other reason than the lack of decent health care.

If the American people really wanted a decent, fair and affordable health care system, we would already have one. A single payer system, just like most Europeans have and like Canadians have, and have had for three decades or more. But not us. Nope...we're Americans we like our health care system. The system that gives us crap life expectancy and infant mortality outcomes for twice the money of the next most expensive Euro system.
Makes me think I came down here 30 years ago and SinglePayer had been running for over 8 or 9 years when I left.

BTW welcome to the nut house Ike.
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  #26  
Old 11-28-2013, 10:46 AM
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merrylander merrylander is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ike Bana View Post
Absolutely. I've lost track of how many colleagues and friends over the years stayed in miserable and sometimes abusive employment situations because of health issues or a child's health issues. The combination of post WWII economic and workplace situations that generated this monstrosity are to blame. Easy fixes for wage and price controls and tax benefits in those years are to blame. Greed and control in later and recent years are to blame.

The delivery of health and mental health services should never, ever have been linked to employment.
The funny part is that since I retired (at age 73) we have a better healthcare insurance than the crap plan TI offered.
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Last edited by merrylander; 11-28-2013 at 11:58 AM.
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  #27  
Old 11-28-2013, 11:44 AM
Ike Bana Ike Bana is offline
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The Medicare plus supplemental we had the first year on Medicare and the Medicare Advantage program we're on now have been the best health insurance plans we've ever had. Better than anything in our 45 or so years in the workforce with all that spectacular employer supported health insurance.

And guess what? We switched health care plans for the Advantage plan after a year on Medicare and our lives weren't catastrophically altered forever. Who knew???
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  #28  
Old 11-28-2013, 11:52 AM
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Welcome to the group, Ike.
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  #29  
Old 11-28-2013, 12:55 PM
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BlueStreak BlueStreak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ike Bana View Post
The Medicare plus supplemental we had the first year on Medicare and the Medicare Advantage program we're on now have been the best health insurance plans we've ever had. Better than anything in our 45 or so years in the workforce with all that spectacular employer supported health insurance.

And guess what? We switched health care plans for the Advantage plan after a year on Medicare and our lives weren't catastrophically altered forever. Who knew???
You mean to tell me Obamas stormtroopers haven't kicked in your door and issued you summons to appear before the Death Panel?

Dave
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  #30  
Old 11-28-2013, 02:48 PM
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icenine icenine is offline
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Actually the death panel are our children...they decide on the end of life care in consultation with the doctors.
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