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  #21  
Old 02-01-2016, 02:45 PM
noonereal noonereal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
Should/Can smoking be outlawed in outdoor places.
Absolutely. They need to start by outlawing all the smokers who make it impossible to enter a smoke free building without passing through a second hand smoke cloud upon entering and leaving.
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  #22  
Old 02-01-2016, 02:50 PM
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Zeke Zeke is offline
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As an avid cigar smoker my only serious concern is lumping long leaf, artisan grown, imported, blended and hand rolled works of tobacco art alongside machine made, chopped Virginia ditch weed, wrapped in paper and carcinogen laced nicotine infusion systems. They're not really the same thing, sort of comparing MD 20/20 to a single malt scotch.

I average a cigar per day and its sort of my Zen space. But I have no desire to do it in your home, a restaurant or anywhere else population congested.

I used to work at Outlaw Cigar in Kansas City prior to moving here. High ceilings, ventilation, charcoal filters, etc, and believe -- specifically for cigars -- things can be done in such a manner that differentiates from cigarettes.

I believe they ARE different than cigarettes.

But I might possess an inherent bias.

And, yes, I will drop the Native "Freedom of Religion" bomb on any municipality or state trying to mess with my daily pure tobacco. It's evil, but I'd do it.
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Last edited by Zeke; 02-01-2016 at 02:53 PM.
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  #23  
Old 02-01-2016, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noonereal View Post
Absolutely. They need to start by outlawing all the smokers who make it impossible to enter a smoke free building without passing through a second hand smoke cloud upon entering and leaving.
Some places do, sorta, by outlawing smoking within a certain distance of an entrance, an operable window or, say, a bus stop shelter. In California it's 20 feet which is kind of a joke.
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  #24  
Old 02-01-2016, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
Some places do, sorta, by outlawing smoking within a certain distance of an entrance, an operable window or, say, a bus stop shelter. In California it's 20 feet which is kind of a joke.
This sort of public courtesy -- codified by law -- I am 100% in favor of.
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  #25  
Old 02-01-2016, 03:47 PM
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This sort of public courtesy -- codified by law -- I am 100% in favor of.
Me too! Don't misunderstand me. The problem with the law here in CA is that 20 feet is far enough to make smokers feel like some sort of victim but not far enough to protect non-smokers.
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  #26  
Old 02-01-2016, 08:52 PM
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Grumpy Grumpy is offline
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Originally Posted by Ike Bana View Post
There are 4 times as many deaths due to tobacco use, as due to alcohol use. Total health care costs from tobacco are at least twice the costs from alcohol, likely more.

As far as the cost to the society goes they're not even close to "equal" vices. And nobody's getting sick from second hand bourbon fumes.

Your kidding right ??
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  #27  
Old 02-01-2016, 09:09 PM
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CarlV CarlV is offline
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I think only once in 2015 did I smell cigarette smoke.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
Can someone please explain to me why a pack of smokes in Michigan has $2.00 excise tax and beer has .20 per gal. Hell that's not even counting the Fed excise tax of $1.01 per pack. I am not even getting in to sale tax here.

So everyone is telling me that all thing equal both vices have an equal tax on them ?

Sounds to me like the gooberment has all ready stuck their hand in the kitty.
Cigs are $10.00 a pack in NYC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
I smoked cigarettes for about 30 years and I'm still here but that doesn't mean they're safe or that they won't be what eventually does me in.

I smoked for a while longer than that but the damage is done. I have lung issues and I had what the Doctors and nurses call a Ruptured Triple A in 5/2014 and then a femoral artery blocked and 3 clots after that.(all related) Don't ask me how I am still alive after that. (90% mortality on the ruptured aorta, 40% the first year from things like clots, and now I am in 20% 2nd year mortality but no more clots since 12/14, fingers crossed)
All from smoking cigarettes even after I had stopped smoking.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aortic_rupture

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Last edited by CarlV; 02-01-2016 at 09:27 PM. Reason: added wiki link
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  #28  
Old 02-01-2016, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlV View Post
I think only once in 2015 did I smell cigarette smoke.


Cigs are $10.00 a pack in NYC.




I smoked for a while longer than that but the damage is done. I have lung issues and I had what the Doctors and nurses call a Ruptured Triple A in 5/2014 and then a femoral artery blocked and 3 clots after that.(all related) Don't ask me how I am still alive after that. (90% mortality on the ruptured aorta, 40% the first year from things like clots, and now I am in 20% 2nd year mortality but no more clots since 12/14, fingers crossed)
All from smoking cigarettes even after I had stopped smoking.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aortic_rupture

Carl
Damn, son! That's some scary stuff! So far, I haven't had any indication that smoking damaged my health. Pure luck. Hope it holds!
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  #29  
Old 02-01-2016, 09:59 PM
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hillbilly hillbilly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ike Bana View Post
Smoker in the elevator, "Do you mind if I smoke?"
Non-smoker in the elevator, "Not unless you mind if I fart."

Illegal everywhere but within the confines of your residence.

PS - If you get caught smoking in your home or in your car with minor children therein, child protective services drops by for a visit.
I just seen a guy get arrested. He had a cig in one hand and a beer between his legs while driving with a 20 month old toddler with him. Reason for the stop was the officer seen him having trouble maintaining his lane of travel.. kept drifting off the shoulder and crossing the center line also.. drunk..

Second time this has happened with same child in car, except the first time it was another guy driving and the guy had pot, alot of pot stuffed in a diaper bag. Both times the mother was allowed to drive away in her car with her child after arresting the guy she let drive. Child services have never been involved.. I know this mother well and have warned her everytime she has ever came to my house, but it goes in one ear and out the other because they haven't paid her a visit before. And her child is in a smokers home, they smoke in the house regular as a man with an enlarged prostate has to piss.

Depends on where you live I guess, I've seen a very sad story in which I know a father personally well that tried hard to get his son, but child services didn't remove the child from the home after a year of suspected physical abuse ( said it couldn't be proved even though the cops knew deep down in their gut that it was but not even they could convince them that it was until it was to late. The mothers boyfriend finally killed the poor child by beating him to death ). The father tried to protect the child, but child services didn't do their job.. and a mother can drag it out in court a long time by hiring a lawyer to ''put off custody court for quite some time.'' For enough time for the boyfriend to finish killing the kid after being investigated for physical abuse to a child for almost a year before he finally killed him just shy of his 2'nd birthday.

So, if smoking is a real issue that they'd act on, then we really do have a screwed up system. It is screwed up bad enough anyways when children are dying at the hands of mothers boyfriends because the system thinks daddy isn't owed shit and every child belongs with it's mother.
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Last edited by hillbilly; 02-01-2016 at 10:02 PM.
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  #30  
Old 02-01-2016, 10:36 PM
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Of course we have a screwed-up system. Anyone who isn't blinded in some way can see that.
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