The Germans dont want to supply cluster bombs

[Ike Bana]

Too bad. It's an ugly weapon, just what the Russians deserve. The US is not a member of the Convention on Cluster Munitions Treaty that outlawed the use of cluster bombs. I say cluster the fuck out of them.

[Dondilion]

And the Brits?

[bobabode]

Vlad Patootie has been using cluster munitions all over the Ukraine. As ye sow and all that crap...

[whell]

https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-c...51b056852831fb

I've been supportive of our efforts to back Ukraine with munitions in the war against Russia. I can't support this. Civilians are still encountering and getting maimed and killed by unexploded cluster munitions that we dropped in Laos over 50 years ago.

[Oerets]

Who can say with any confidence they would be even a thought. If Ukraine were to have been supplied on time and completely with the weapons and supplies asked for.

They have been in need of air power and ammo since the beginning.

Being opposed to the use of cluster bombs use. Understand all to well when in the heat of battle all rational actions and humanity is all to soon to be forgotten. Any and all weapons are on the table for use in ones survival.

Using their use for mine field clearing sounds like a rationalization for a justification to their use.

A black mark on the Biden presidency and there for the U.S.A. IMHO.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-c...51b056852831fb

I've been supportive of our efforts to back Ukraine with munitions in the war against Russia. I can't support this. Civilians are still encountering and getting maimed and killed by unexploded cluster munitions that we dropped in Laos over 50 years ago.

Several factors are at play here.

1. Cluster bombs are the perfect weapon for a counteroffensive attacking a sophisticated trench network.

2. We have shitloads of these 155mm cluster artillery shells, but are running low on conventional artillery shells (which are less suitable for an assault on entrenched enemies anyway).

3. Russia used clusterbombs indiscriminately already in this war.

4. Russia's dud rate for its clusterbombs is ~40% whereas the dud rate on ours is ~2%.

5. Ukraine will be launching these bombs onto sovereign Ukrainian territory and will map their locations for future removal (that they'll be doing anyway on the cluster bombs that Russia used).

So concern is certainly warranted, but it appears that Ukraine is more willing to remove future unexploded ordinance than it is to get caught up in a protracted stalemate in the Donbas or to cede this territory to Russia.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by whell

https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-c...51b056852831fb
I can't support this.

Like anybody here gives a shit.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Several factors are at play here.

1. Cluster bombs are the perfect weapon for a counteroffensive attacking a sophisticated trench network.

2. We have shitloads of these 155mm cluster artillery shells, but are running low on conventional artillery shells (which are less suitable for an assault on entrenched enemies anyway).

3. Russia used clusterbombs indiscriminately already in this war.

4. Russia's dud rate for its clusterbombs is ~40% whereas the dud rate on ours is ~2%.

5. Ukraine will be launching these bombs onto sovereign Ukrainian territory and will map their locations for future removal (that they'll be doing anyway on the cluster bombs that Russia used).

So concern is certainly warranted, but it appears that Ukraine is more willing to remove future unexploded ordinance than it is to get caught up in a protracted stalemate in the Donbas or to cede this territory to Russia.

Apparently the Biden admin is in the process of considering supplying these munitions. If Joe is the nominee he will get my vote. If he doesn't authorize shipment of these munitions to the Ukrainians, I for one will be very annoyed.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by Oerets

Who can say with any confidence they would be even a thought. If Ukraine were to have been supplied on time and completely with the weapons and supplies asked for.

They have been in need of air power and ammo since the beginning.

Being opposed to the use of cluster bombs use. Understand all to well when in the heat of battle all rational actions and humanity is all to soon to be forgotten. Any and all weapons are on the table for use in ones survival.

Using their use for mine field clearing sounds like a rationalization for a justification to their use.

A black mark on the Biden presidency and there for the U.S.A. IMHO.

No rules in a knife fight. The Russians are launching purposeful rocket attacks into Restaurants for christ's sake.

[Oerets]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

No rules in a knife fight. The Russians are launching purposeful rocket attacks into Restaurants for christ's sake.

I understand this all to well. I would be giving them F16's Warthogs C130 gunships.....