Ukraine Heats Up

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by MikeG22

I see the opposite. Putin is going to send in the military to restore order and squash the muslim faction.

Originally Posted by finnbow

Muslims aren't the issue in Ukraine as they make up only 12% (mostly Tatars).

Nevertheless, there may be a Muslim element in all this but from outside Ukraine. On their website, the leader of the Ukrainian neo-Nazi "Right Sector" is supposed to have posted a plea to Doku Umarov, the leader of the Chechen jihadist rebels, asking him to step up attacks on Russian territory and interests.

The Right Sector claims that their site was hacked. Given what we now know of the capabilities and practices of the NSA and British GCHQ, it's entirely plausible that Russia's FSB is behind it. I suspect their capabilities in that area are at least on a par with our own.

Interestingly, I think that the Muslim minority in Ukraine are mostly in Crimea. I think too that they're pretty well assimilated into Crimean society and would be pretty tough to radicalize.

John

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by MikeG22

They're using WW2 as they're reasoning?!? Germany better watch out cause France and Poland are coming back for some payback for a 70yr old war. Do you not see the bullshit in that?

We may have short memories, but lots of other countries/cultures don't. Prior to having spent several weeks in Russia (actually the USSR) back in the '80's, I wasn't aware of the degree to which they still have WWII in the forefront of their memories/culture. Parts of the roots of the conflict are a cultural divide that goes back to WWII, as western Ukraine backed the Germans and the eastern part backed the Soviets. In fact, the national hero in western Ukraine, Stepan Bandera, is considered an outright traitor in eastern Ukraine.

[4-2-7]

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by MikeG22

No I'm thinking of Crimea which is at the heart of this conflict.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/27/wo...pe/russia.html

Hmmmm.... seems I may have been a little too optimistic about the Crimean Muslims. I watched the video of the demonstration, trying to see whether the Muslims appeared to be Tatars, an Asiatic people. It looked as if the demonstrators on both sides were, like the Chechens, Slavic Europeans. Maybe this is the result of the Right Sector's supposed plea.

John

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Hmmmm.... seems I may have been a little too optimistic about the Crimean Muslims. I watched the video of the demonstration, trying to see whether the Muslims appeared to be Tatars, an Asiatic people. It looked as if the demonstrators on both sides were, like the Chechens, Slavic Europeans. Maybe this is the result of the Right Sector's supposed plea.

John

From the article:

The anger of a Muslim community known for its peaceful ways and its general lack of interest in radical strains of Islam highlighted how the political tumult in Kiev has stirred a riptide of conflicting passions throughout a country of 46 million that is now struggling to stay together.

[MikeG22]

I believe there was an episode of that traveling food show with Anthony Bourdain in which he visited Ukraine and there was a short history lesson on Bandera. Still murals painted on sides of buildings from the war. I think even Bourdain made a comment on the people need to learn how to let things go.

I think Boreas has a good point there is outside influences in play here.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by MikeG22

They're using WW2 as they're reasoning?!? Germany better watch out cause France and Poland are coming back for some payback for a 70yr old war. Do you not see the bullshit in that?

Ask an Armenian if the WW1 era genocide is "old news".

John

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by MikeG22

No I'm thinking of Crimea which is at the heart of this conflict.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/27/wo...pe/russia.html

Sounds like all that the Crimean Tatars want is to keep the government they have and not be taken over by the Russian ethnic residents from that article. They don't sound anything like the radicalized Muslims further east. I wonder if it was a teaser on the part of the Times writer? Nahhh, the Times wouldn't ever slant that way.

Anyway, with the long history of animus between the western and eastern populations, we may end up seeing it partioned for all intents and purposes.

Anyone know how many seats the neo nazies hold in the paliament?

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by bobabode

Sounds like all that the Crimean Tatars want is to keep the government they have and not be taken over by the Russian ethnic residents from that article. They don't sound anything like the radicalized Muslims further east. I wonder if it was a teaser on the part of the Times writer? Nahhh, the Times wouldn't ever slant that way.

Anyway, with the long history of animus between the western and eastern populations, we may end up seeing it partioned for all intents and purposes.

Anyone know how many seats the neo nazies hold in the paliament?

Check Svoboda

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Ask an Armenian if the WW1 era genocide is "old news".

John

Only if you're suicidal. I've known several Armenians. It wasn't all that long ago that an Armenian up and shot the Turkish Consul dead in LA.