Ukraine Heats Up

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by 4-2-7

Crimean voters on Sunday overwhelmingly backed a referendum to secede from Ukraine by 90%

Good for them. I imagine they weren't too keen on being at the mercy of Ukrainian ultra-Nationalist right wing assholes who despise ethnic Russians. They probably figured it wouldn't be pretty, living under those circumstances.

Fancy that.

Dave

[Tom Joad]

http://news.yahoo.com/crimeans-vote-...230724655.html

SIMFEROPOL, Ukraine (AP) — Just two weeks after Russian troops seized their peninsula, Crimeans voted Sunday to leave Ukraine and join Russia, overwhelmingly approving a referendum that sought to unite the strategically important Black Sea region with the country it was part of for some 250 years.

The vote was widely condemned by Western leaders, who planned to move swiftly to punish Russia with economic sanctions.

The people have spoken.

It's time for us to back off and leave things alone.

[bobabode]

Some flibbergibbet here mentions economic warfare, what a joke . The EU is not going to do diddly that would threaten their supply of cheap natural gas from Russia and the US isn't going to rock the NATO boat, not now, not ever.

[4-2-7]

No war? What about Obamas red line?

We will be having an economic war for starters.

[Boreas]

This is not going to not happen so the West better get its heads out of their collective asshole and work toward a solution that appeases all sides. Ukraine will lose Crimea and they and the West better get used to the idea.

Russia, on the other hand, isn't going to get the territory east of the Dneiper. Even though it's predominantly Russian speaking, there are a lot of Russian speakers there who aren't ethnic Russians. To make it work out that the eastern Ukraine could become a part of Russia or an autonomous region with ties to Russia would involve massive cross-migration along the lines of India/Pakistan at the time of partition. That ain't gonna happen. Too many have too much to just pull up stakes.

I think the key is in the elections in Kyiv. It's in the interest of all parties concerned, Russia, the EU and the US, that a moderate inclusive government, democratically elected and democratically inclined, emerge, beholden to none of the big players but with friendly relations with all of them. But, if the big guns in this mess don't start working toward a mutually satisfactory end to the crisis, that won't happen. Svoboda or, god forbid, Right Sector wll come to control both the rhetoric and the government.

One of the really scary results of a neo-Nazi ascendancy in Ukraine would be the inspiration it would give other neo-Nazi movements from Romania to France. Bad, bad, bad news!

John

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by Boreas

This is not going to not happen so the West better get its heads out of their collective asshole and work toward a solution that appeases all sides. Ukraine will lose Crimea and they and the West better get used to the idea.

Russia, on the other hand, isn't going to get the territory east of the Dneiper. Even though it's predominantly Russian speaking, there are a lot of Russian speakers there who aren't ethnic Russians. To make it work out that the eastern Ukraine could become a part of Russia or an autonomous region with ties to Russia would involve massive cross-migration along the lines of India/Pakistan at the time of partition. That ain't gonna happen. Too many have too much to just pull up stakes.

I think the key is in the elections in Kyiv. It's in the interest of all parties concerned, Russia, the EU and the US, that a moderate inclusive government, democratically elected and democratically inclined, emerge, beholden to none of the big players but with friendly relations with all of them. But, if the big guns in this mess don't start working toward a mutually satisfactory end to the crisis, that won't happen. Svoboda or, god forbid, Right Sector wll come to control both the rhetoric and the government.

One of the really scary results of a neo-Nazi ascendancy in Ukraine would be the inspiration it would give other neo-Nazi movements from Romania to France. Bad, bad, bad news!

John

The West should insist that the Ukrainian Government respect language rights.

A lot of Ukrainians although they speak Russian are not pro Russian but they
fear the new guys in power want them to become second class citizens.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

The West should insist that the Ukrainian Government respect language rights.

A lot of Ukrainians although they speak Russian are not pro Russian but they
fear the new guys in power want them to become second class citizens.

To say nothing of religious rights. The Jews in Ukraine are scared shitless and with good reason. One of the chief rabbis in Ukraine is urging Jews to leave while they still can.

John

[4-2-7]

Nobody told Russia that..


Fed Custody Holdings Record Decline Fuels Russia Speculation
The record drop in U.S. government securities held in custody at the Federal Reserve is fueling speculation that Russia may have shifted its holdings out of the U.S. as Western nations threaten sanctions.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...eculation.html


And



If Sunday's vote passes and the Russian parliament ratifies it, Kerry said that would violate international law, and there will be consequences. He said this is not a threat against Russia but a matter of respecting international standards for annexation and independence.

U.S. President Barack Obama said Friday he still hopes for a diplomatic solution to the crisis. But Kerry said it is clear Russian President Vladimir Putin will not make any moves until after Sunday's referendum.

The Kremlin says Putin told U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon in a phone call that the referendum is "fully consistent with international law and the U.N. Charter." However, the U.S. and European Union say the referendum violates Ukraine's constitution and international law.

U.S. Vice President Joe Biden is traveling to Poland and Lithuania next week to meet with regional partners to discuss events in Ukraine.

A White House statement says Biden will consult on steps to support Ukraine's sovereignty, and affirm international "collective defense commitments under the North Atlantic Treaty."
http://www.voanews.com/content/un-to...n/1871773.html

[bobabode]

Still nothing but the words of others, why am I not surprised. How's your girl Spamm doin'?

[4-2-7]

Originally Posted by bobabode

Still nothing but the words of others, why am I not surprised. How's your girl Spamm doin'?

I thought you didn't see the news since your nose is stuck in the WP.


Treasuries held by foreign central banks dropped by $104 billion to $2.86 trillion in the week ending March 12, according to Fed data released yesterday, as the turmoil in Ukraine intensified. As of December, Russia held $138.6 billion of Treasuries, making it the ninth largest country holder.