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08-03-2010, 11:18 AM
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Area Man
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 27,407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piece-itpete
Apparently Obama disagrees. And Pelosi. And Reid.
Pete
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Maybe so.
But I fail to see how voting for Republicans would ever help me see my goal either. They're too militaristic, too ambitious, too full of badass tough guy rhetoric, too determined to show the rest of the world who's boss. One of the reasons we're so mistrusted, IMO. No one likes a bully.
Dave
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"When the lie is so big and the fog so thick, the Republican trick can play out again....."-------Frank Zappa
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08-03-2010, 11:39 AM
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Possibly admin. Maybe ;)
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Land of the burning river
Posts: 21,098
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The only difference I can see in the two parties military policy is talk. Doubletalk is better?
Pete
__________________
“How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.”
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08-03-2010, 01:45 PM
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Reformed Know-Nothing
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MoCo, MD
Posts: 25,907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piece-itpete
How'z that withdrawy combaty thing workin' out for ya?
Pete
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As hosed up as things are over there, Obama's policies and implementation thereof are more comprehensible that Dubya's by a wide margin. Think about it - had Dubya's policies been even marginally successful, we should have been out of both Iraq and Afghanistan long ago. After bailing at Tora Bora, he had no policy in Afghanistan and up until "the surge" his policies in Iraq could be characterized as nothing short of a clusterf*ck. Lots of trees were killed publishing deeply researched tomes critical of his Iraq efforts.
__________________
As long as the roots are not severed, all will be well in the garden.
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08-03-2010, 03:15 PM
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Possibly admin. Maybe ;)
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Land of the burning river
Posts: 21,098
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Yeah those greenie lefties sure wasted a lot of trees blathering on subjects they knew nothing about.
They tried something new. Unfortunately it didn't work. Welcome to the real world of combat.
But it's OK if Obaama lies to his 'base' as long as he isn't Bush. IOKIYAD.
Pete
__________________
“How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.”
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08-03-2010, 04:29 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbow
As hosed up as things are over there, Obama's policies and implementation thereof are more comprehensible that Dubya's by a wide margin. Think about it - had Dubya's policies been even marginally successful, we should have been out of both Iraq and Afghanistan long ago. After bailing at Tora Bora, he had no policy in Afghanistan and up until "the surge" his policies in Iraq could be characterized as nothing short of a clusterf*ck. Lots of trees were killed publishing deeply researched tomes critical of his Iraq efforts.
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Well, Shrub may have been a fucking idiot, but he had better sense that to get bogged down in Afghanistan.
Like another fucking idiot I can think of.
Chas
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08-03-2010, 04:50 PM
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Reformed Know-Nothing
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MoCo, MD
Posts: 25,907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles
Well, Shrub may have been a fucking idiot, but he had better sense that to get bogged down in Afghanistan.
Like another fucking idiot I can think of.
Chas
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If he bailed from Afghanistan in general and Tora Bora in particular because he felt that he had accomplished all the he planned to accomplish or could have accomplished, I'd agree. But he bailed in order to man up for the Iraqi invasion, an unnecessary, costly and continuing (mis)adventure.
__________________
As long as the roots are not severed, all will be well in the garden.
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08-03-2010, 04:54 PM
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Loyal Opposition
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Johnson County, Kansas
Posts: 14,401
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Pete, it looks like if Obama does something moderately, something that you might otherwise approve of, you criticize it because he will disappoint people who have supported him. It's kind of like Fox spending one day screaming for Sherrod's head, and the next criticizing the administration for jumping the gun to fire her.
Regards,
D-Ray
__________________
Then I'll get on my knees and pray,
We won't get fooled again; Don't get fooled again
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08-03-2010, 05:28 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbow
If he bailed from Afghanistan in general and Tora Bora in particular because he felt that he had accomplished all the he planned to accomplish or could have accomplished, I'd agree. But he bailed in order to man up for the Iraqi invasion, an unnecessary, costly and continuing (mis)adventure.
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That's one way to look at it.
Another is, Al Qaeda was spread throughout the Middle East and beyond. Bin Laden was more of a spiritual advisor than a military advisor. And Tora Bora was a tough nut where we relied on supporting different factions against one another.
The invasion of Iraq, IMO, was an attempt to affect the mindset of the entire Middle East. An overly ambitious project, to be sure.
How did Machiavelli put it, "Nothing is more difficult, or more dangerous, or more unsure of success than to attempt to change the order of things."
Well, that's what Shrub did, and I doubt that he drew up the plans on his Etch-O-Sketch all by himself. Using crayolas because he was too stupid to use the knobs. I'm sure he had a lot of input from a lot of people, and not just only the so called neocons.
Obama's in the same place, and there is only so much he can do. Personally, I feel sorry for both of them, they both were presented with choices where there are no good answers.
I only hope it works. And I'm also growing very weary of all of the political finger pointing.
Would anyone here want the responsibility that goes with doing a better job?
Chas
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08-03-2010, 05:47 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 3,075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piece-itpete
So we will no longer have any combat missions in Iraq.
Pete
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Major combat missions in Iraq ended on May 1st 2003.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Mi...plished_Speech
If I were a Republican I'd not be quick to call Obama a lier on this. He's come far closer to delivering than the last guy did. And he hasn't held a photo op in an effort to gain politically on the backs of our troops.
This isn't the pot calling the kettle black. This is the crook calling he cop a thief. And it's another diversion. Rather than talking about where we are and how we should move forward as a nation, we're arguing about which President of our great nation is the bigger lier. Not likely to be a line of thought that leads to a solution.
__________________
Two days slow. That's what they are.
Last edited by Fast_Eddie; 08-03-2010 at 05:52 PM.
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08-03-2010, 06:20 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie
Major combat missions in Iraq ended on May 1st 2003.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Mi...plished_Speech
If I were a Republican I'd not be quick to call Obama a lier on this. He's come far closer to delivering than the last guy did. And he hasn't held a photo op in an effort to gain politically on the backs of our troops.
This isn't the pot calling the kettle black. This is the crook calling he cop a thief. And it's another diversion. Rather than talking about where we are and how we should move forward as a nation, we're arguing about which President of our great nation is the bigger lier. Not likely to be a line of thought that leads to a solution.
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Ed, you are 100% correct.
From what I understand, the personnel on the carrier hung the "Mission Accomplished" sign on their own. But it doesn't really matter.
What does matter is the fact that we're all in the same boat. Both Bush and Obama did, and are, doing the best that they can under difficult situations.
The situation has never been made worse by being civil and understanding...as far as I know.
Chas
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