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  #1961  
Old 06-19-2018, 05:30 PM
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nailer nailer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicks View Post
I’m beginning to wonder if you’re a native English speaker. Read the sentence again, slowly: We would have respect for the FBI and the independence of the Judiciary...

The “respect for” bit includes both parts of the following sentence structure.
Did I respond to your post?
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  #1962  
Old 06-19-2018, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nailer View Post
I'm not playing the blame game nor asking a political question. And you're still evading the moral question.
Is it "moral" for parents to place their kids on a train alone bound north through Mexico to the American border? Is it moral for folks to organize a caravan of illegal immigrants and throw them at our border? Is it moral to deport kids' parents while leaving their kids here? Is it moral to knowingly, selectively enforce immigration laws which then encourage folks to try to get into the US? Is it moral to bind a "refugee" over for trial and release them on their own recognizance into the US, knowing that many of them will never show up for their trial? Is it moral to claim refugee status when you're not a refugee, knowing that you'll likely be released and not deported? Is it moral to have an immigration system that is open to exploitation and allow it to go on and on and on for years and years? Is it moral to try to gain entry into another country by bypassing the legal process and entering illegally? Is it moral to totally disregard the fact that parents made choices when they decided to try to enter the country illegally with their children?

And fraudulent claims of asylum play a role here. Per the NY Times:

Protecting children at the border is complicated because there have, indeed, been instances of fraud. Tens of thousands of migrants arrive there every year, and those with children in tow are often released into the United States more quickly than adults who come alone, because of restrictions on the amount of time that minors can be held in custody. Some migrants have admitted they brought their children not only to remove them from danger in such places as Central America and Africa, but because they believed it would cause the authorities to release them from custody sooner.

Others have admitted to posing falsely with children who are not their own, and Border Patrol officials say that such instances of fraud are increasing.


There's a TON of immorality in play here. Focusing on one small thread while ignoring the others, and the causes and effects, isn't terribly useful in my opinion.
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  #1963  
Old 06-19-2018, 06:32 PM
Chicks Chicks is offline
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The facts about Trump’s policy of separating families at the border

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...at-the-border/

The Pinocchio Test

The doublespeak coming from Trump and top administration officials on this issue is breathtaking, not only because of the sheer audacity of these claims but also because they keep being repeated without evidence. Immigrant families are being separated at the border not because of Democrats and not because some law forces this result, as Trump insists. They’re being separated because the Trump administration, under its zero-tolerance policy, is choosing to prosecute border-crossing adults for any offenses.

This includes illegal-entry misdemeanors, which are being prosecuted at a rate not seen in previous administrations. Because the act of crossing itself is now being treated as an offense worthy of prosecution, any family that enters the United States illegally is likely to end up separated. Nielsen may choose not to call this a “family separation policy,” but that’s precisely the effect it has.

Sessions, who otherwise owns up to what’s happening, has suggested that the Flores settlement and a court ruling are forcing his hand. They’re not. At heart, this is an issue of prosecutorial discretion: his discretion.

The Trump administration owns this family-separation policy, and its spin deserves Four Pinocchios.

Four Pinocchios
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  #1964  
Old 06-19-2018, 06:44 PM
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whell whell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicks View Post
The facts about Trump’s policy of separating families at the border

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...at-the-border/

The Pinocchio Test

The doublespeak coming from Trump and top administration officials on this issue is breathtaking, not only because of the sheer audacity of these claims but also because they keep being repeated without evidence. Immigrant families are being separated at the border not because of Democrats and not because some law forces this result, as Trump insists. They’re being separated because the Trump administration, under its zero-tolerance policy, is choosing to prosecute border-crossing adults for any offenses.

This includes illegal-entry misdemeanors, which are being prosecuted at a rate not seen in previous administrations. Because the act of crossing itself is now being treated as an offense worthy of prosecution, any family that enters the United States illegally is likely to end up separated. Nielsen may choose not to call this a “family separation policy,” but that’s precisely the effect it has.

Sessions, who otherwise owns up to what’s happening, has suggested that the Flores settlement and a court ruling are forcing his hand. They’re not. At heart, this is an issue of prosecutorial discretion: his discretion.

The Trump administration owns this family-separation policy, and its spin deserves Four Pinocchios.

Four Pinocchios
So, WaPo seems to find it shocking that entering the US illegally is actually a crime that could subject someone to prosecution. Interesting.
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  #1965  
Old 06-19-2018, 06:51 PM
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^The four Pinochio were earned for blaming a law attributed to Democrats. Why?
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  #1966  
Old 06-19-2018, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell View Post
So, WaPo seems to find it shocking that entering the US illegally is actually a crime that could subject someone to prosecution. Interesting.
Obtuse much?
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  #1967  
Old 06-19-2018, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell View Post
So, WaPo seems to find it shocking that entering the US illegally is actually a crime that could subject someone to prosecution. Interesting.
U.S. congressional Republicans seek legislative fix to family separation crisis
Quote:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Congressional Republicans scrambled on Tuesday to craft legislation that would quell an outcry over the Trump administration’s separation of immigrant parents and children at the U.S.-Mexico border, with an opinion poll showing most Americans oppose the policy.
Quote:
President Donald Trump arrived at Capitol Hill for a Tuesday evening meeting with House of Representatives Republicans to discuss their immigration legislation. He is focused on winning congressional funding for a wall he has long wanted to build along America’s southern border with Mexico, a plan resisted by Democrats.

Trump, who has made a tough stance on immigration a centerpiece of his presidency, has staunchly defended his administration’s actions. He has cast blame for the family separations on Democrats, although his fellow Republicans control both chambers in Congress and his own administration implemented the current policy of strict adherence to immigration laws.
Wasn't Mexico supposed to pay for the wall?
This is simply a tantrum by the Dotard's administration to act like teenagers because they cannot get their stupid will funded. It will never get built either.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1JF177
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  #1968  
Old 06-19-2018, 08:33 PM
Chicks Chicks is offline
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July 2016: Crime and illegal immigration are at decades-long lows, says Barack Obama

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ades-long-low/

True. Donny's rhetoric on an immigration "crisis" is just another of his long, long list of lies. Idiots like Whell were ignorant enough to believe the lies, and elected this disastrous president*. The separation issue was created by Donny, and can be ended by Donny, with the stroke of a pen.
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  #1969  
Old 06-19-2018, 10:58 PM
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nailer nailer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell View Post
Is it "moral" for parents to place their kids on a train alone bound north through Mexico to the American border? Is it moral for folks to organize a caravan of illegal immigrants and throw them at our border? Is it moral to deport kids' parents while leaving their kids here? Is it moral to knowingly, selectively enforce immigration laws which then encourage folks to try to get into the US? Is it moral to bind a "refugee" over for trial and release them on their own recognizance into the US, knowing that many of them will never show up for their trial? Is it moral to claim refugee status when you're not a refugee, knowing that you'll likely be released and not deported? Is it moral to have an immigration system that is open to exploitation and allow it to go on and on and on for years and years? Is it moral to try to gain entry into another country by bypassing the legal process and entering illegally? Is it moral to totally disregard the fact that parents made choices when they decided to try to enter the country illegally with their children?

And fraudulent claims of asylum play a role here. Per the NY Times:

Protecting children at the border is complicated because there have, indeed, been instances of fraud. Tens of thousands of migrants arrive there every year, and those with children in tow are often released into the United States more quickly than adults who come alone, because of restrictions on the amount of time that minors can be held in custody. Some migrants have admitted they brought their children not only to remove them from danger in such places as Central America and Africa, but because they believed it would cause the authorities to release them from custody sooner.

Others have admitted to posing falsely with children who are not their own, and Border Patrol officials say that such instances of fraud are increasing.


There's a TON of immorality in play here. Focusing on one small thread while ignoring the others, and the causes and effects, isn't terribly useful in my opinion.
Another long deflecting evasion. Your responses appear to be supporting the idea that legality trumps morality. Thanks for indirectly answering the question.
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Last edited by nailer; 06-19-2018 at 11:15 PM.
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  #1970  
Old 06-19-2018, 11:25 PM
Chicks Chicks is offline
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More than half of Americans back impeachment if Trump pardons himself: poll

http://thehill.com/policy/national-s...-trump-pardons

58% of Americans would support impeaching his sorry ass, but only 31% of Repubes, even if he pardoned himself! They are just beyond disgusting.
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