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  #11  
Old 10-15-2017, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob T View Post
You and I both, Mr P....
Except the taxes will be going down if Trump & the GOP had their way, which they may with the budget resolution.

In the interim, Trump's mentor had this to say today.

Trump Ally Says President Cut Off Obamacare Payments To Destroy Health Law

Quote:
“Not gonna make the CSR [cost-sharing reduction] payments. Gonna blow that thing up, gonna blow those [insurance] exchanges up, right?” Steve Bannon, the executive chairman of the website Breitbart News, said Saturday in a speech at the Values Voter Summit, a conservative convention in Washington, D.C.
When a party or their leader cannot govern, next best thing to do is to undo.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-all...174121430.html
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  #12  
Old 10-15-2017, 05:04 PM
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icenine icenine is offline
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I would gladly pay more taxes if we could move to single payer. I am sure the taxes would be less than the $1600 a month I pay now for health insurance.


Agreed....and single payer is probably the best option to control costs...
Yeah people in your situation are mad. I can also tell you that people are going to be really pissed off paying more in taxes also. It is a game of winners and losers.
I probably paid close to 15-16k income taxes last year. I would imagine single payer would add about 5k more at the least. People below the poverty line or who don't make much in income will love single payer. Middle and upper middle class people will whine about it.

I mean if single payer was so popular we would have it by now, right?

Plus there would be wide spread rationing and waiting lists for elective surgery also. People really complain about that.
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  #13  
Old 10-15-2017, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by barbara View Post
Insurance rates were going up before the ACA.
I remember mine going up in the two years prior to the legislation.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ance-premium-/

"I will sign a universal health care bill into law by the end of my first term as president that will cover every American and cut the cost of a typical family's premium by up to $2,500 a year."
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  #14  
Old 10-15-2017, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Rajoo View Post
Except the taxes will be going down if Trump & the GOP had their way, which they may with the budget resolution.

In the interim, Trump's mentor had this to say today.

[B]Trump Ally Says President Cut Off Obamacare Payments To Destroy Health Law[/

When a party or their leader cannot govern, next best thing to do is to undo.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-all...174121430.html
Bannon is blowing smoke. I think it far more likely this is a move to get Congress together to negotiate on this.

Last edited by whell; 10-15-2017 at 09:37 PM.
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  #15  
Old 10-15-2017, 06:29 PM
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JCricket JCricket is offline
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Originally Posted by icenine View Post
Yeah people in your situation are mad. I can also tell you that people are going to be really pissed off paying more in taxes also. It is a game of winners and losers.
I probably paid close to 15-16k income taxes last year. I would imagine single payer would add about 5k more at the least. People below the poverty line or who don't make much in income will love single payer. Middle and upper middle class people will whine about it.

I mean if single payer was so popular we would have it by now, right?

Plus there would be wide spread rationing and waiting lists for elective surgery also. People really complain about that.

First, the fear mongering and finger pointing from both sides has clouded any real perspective on single payer. Quite frankly I wish I could make an informed decision about single payer. there is so much info and mis-info out there it is near impossible to see what is real and what is not. Like many others stated, if I could move to single payer healthcare, I could easily let go $10k of my income to pay for it and still come out ahead. About $16k is my current health care costs. If things fall apart with my prescription pan it will jump another $45k per year, yes fourty-five thousand. That would be completely un-resolvable to me.
As to elective surgery, if it really is elective, then why should we be paying for it? Maybe the definition of elective needs to be clarified a bit?
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  #16  
Old 10-15-2017, 06:41 PM
Bob T Bob T is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icenine View Post
Yeah people in your situation are mad. I can also tell you that people are going to be really pissed off paying more in taxes also. It is a game of winners and losers.
I probably paid close to 15-16k income taxes last year. I would imagine single payer would add about 5k more at the least. People below the poverty line or who don't make much in income will love single payer. Middle and upper middle class people will whine about it.

I mean if single payer was so popular we would have it by now, right?

Plus there would be wide spread rationing and waiting lists for elective surgery also. People really complain about that.
I paid over $26K in income tax last year...And will have paid neaar $20K for health insurance this year, plus all the out of pocket with the crazy high deductibles...One medication I take, use to be about $40 for a two month supply, now it is $380 for the same amount.

Another 5-10% in taxes, in exchange for healthcare...Great, sign me up.

Single payer is popular in every other civilized country...and support here is growing. Maybe it won't happen before I leave this earth, but it will someday.
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  #17  
Old 10-15-2017, 06:45 PM
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Elective surgery is not just having a mole taken off. Fixing a totally blown knee is elective surgery. A blown knee won't kill you. You could fix the knee now, in 6 months, or never. When is a choice. Somebody's choice....

Changing the way the doctors and hospitals are paid does have big implications. Right now, estimates are that 1/4 to 1/3 of medical procedures done in the US are unnecessary. But the providers get paid per procedure. This is not only expensive, it is harmful to patients. Things go wrong sometimes when procedures are done.

Of course, if one goes to a managed care system where the providers get paid the same whether they do procedures or not, the incentive becomes to not do them, and people who need care may have a hard time getting it. This is where you get the long waiting times and stuff. Some say the solution is to 'pay for outcomes,' but that gets complex.
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  #18  
Old 10-15-2017, 06:57 PM
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I think those 'long waiting times' are mostly a myth perpetuated by those opposed to single payer/universal health care.

The fact is, every system has long wait times and short wait times depending on the situation.

I have health care insurance through my employer and it is the most comprehensive and quality health care insurance in my area. A few years back I waited close to eight months for gall bladder surgery. On the other hand, my cancer was diagnosed on a Monday and I was in surgery before the end of the week.
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  #19  
Old 10-16-2017, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donquixote99 View Post
Elective surgery is not just having a mole taken off. Fixing a totally blown knee is elective surgery. A blown knee won't kill you. You could fix the knee now, in 6 months, or never. When is a choice. Somebody's choice....

Changing the way the doctors and hospitals are paid does have big implications. Right now, estimates are that 1/4 to 1/3 of medical procedures done in the US are unnecessary. But the providers get paid per procedure. This is not only expensive, it is harmful to patients. Things go wrong sometimes when procedures are done.

Of course, if one goes to a managed care system where the providers get paid the same whether they do procedures or not, the incentive becomes to not do them, and people who need care may have a hard time getting it. This is where you get the long waiting times and stuff. Some say the solution is to 'pay for outcomes,' but that gets complex.
I've said this before, and its not complex. The groundwork is being laid for transition to this model. It won't be a fast transition and there will be some resistance from the physician community.
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  #20  
Old 10-16-2017, 08:10 AM
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Oerets Oerets is offline
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The Insurance and Pharmaceutical industries are guaranteed a profit. So little in the way of incentive to control costs. Along with Medical practitioners now being more and more taken over by big Insurance and Hospitals corporations. This has been a book of blank checks. Ever increasing funds for profit they have put to use.
Just in the duplication in personal that would be eliminated if a single payer system were to be implemented alone would be a savings. But for the horror of massive layoffs.
With the looming tax cuts and the cuts to the ACA announced it is going to be a long period of suffering for most of the US in need of care. I believe the GOP plan is to bankrupt the country in order to rid the country of perceived so called "entitlement" benefits.



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