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  #11  
Old 02-09-2013, 09:44 AM
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d-ray657 d-ray657 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mini me View Post
Ok, so I'll bite. Here in MI, there's no way in hell that solar energy would ever be economical. Why? There's not enough days / hours of sunlight per year to make solar power generation an economically viable energy source. Hell, we can go for a week or more with no sunny days in the winter. Just solid cloud cover.

Now, if that's the point that the Fox News person is attempting to make, albeit poorly stated, then that makes sense to me, just base on my experience here in MI. I've not attempted to Google and see if there's any info out there comparing average hours of sunshine per year by country. Maybe that would be a revealing exercise.
Did you look at the graphical representation of hours of sunlight at the bottom of the linked page? It compared the US to Germany (and Spain). From looking at the map, it looks like Michigan is among the lowest states in the US in terms of solar energy (ahead of Alaska, Washington and Oregon). Other states in Michigan's vicinity looked similar to Michigan. Must be those big ol' lakes up there causing all of that cloud cover.

Regards,

D-Ray
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  #12  
Old 02-09-2013, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by mini me View Post
Um, huh?
The point is it works in Germany and, if you look at the insolation maps in the article, you'll see that Michigan gets more sunshine than Germany does. The obvious conclusion is that, if it works in Germany, it would work in Michigan.

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  #13  
Old 02-09-2013, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by mini me View Post
Um, huh? I didn't see the actual clip, just read the transcript posted in he OP. Don't watch TV news much, because most of it makes me want to puke. So, I'm not sure what the hell you're getting at with your post.
Whether you watched the clip or read the transcript makes no difference. You absorbed the material and then defended it at face value.

Germany 64 sunny days per year.

http://solar.calfinder.com/blog/sola...n-solar-power/

Michigan 170 sunny days per year;

http://www.bestplaces.net/climate/state/michigan

That ditz on Fox was wrong and YOU are wrong.

THAT's what my post meant.

Dave
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  #14  
Old 02-09-2013, 12:03 PM
mini me mini me is offline
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Originally Posted by BlueStreak View Post
Whether you watched the clip or read the transcript makes no difference. You absorbed the material and then defended it at face value.

Germany 64 sunny days per year.

http://solar.calfinder.com/blog/sola...n-solar-power/

Michigan 170 sunny days per year;

http://www.bestplaces.net/climate/state/michigan

That ditz on Fox was wrong and YOU are wrong.

THAT's what my post meant.

Dave
So you pull data from two different sources for comparison, draw a conclusion, and tell me that I'm wrong? Cool.

Yes, I took it at face value, and then combined it with what I know and what I see. I know some folks in the energy industry, and they're trying to figure out ways to respond to a mandate from the Granholm administration that requires the utilities in MI to ratchet up the percentage of renewable or "green" energy sources that feed the grid in MI. From what I'm told, the consensus is that solar power is a non-starter, or at least several notches down on the list of viable solutions, due to the lack of sunny days. Maybe as the cost of building a solar generating plant come down, that will change.

Now, I'm no expert, and I've never asked that specifically why it works in Germany and not in MI. Your sources don't event cite the location of the measurements. Its like saying that the USA averages 170 days of sunlight per year, just based on measurements taken in MI.

And, for the record, I'm not "down" on solar. There are plenty of individuals / families around here who applied for subsidies and installed solar collectors, solar shingles, etc. They also can't disconnect from the Edison power feeds because of the variability of power that their home systems generate, but good for them that they are, on average, reducing their annual electric bill.

Power grids need constant and predictable sources of energy. Solar may be, at least around here, a way to supplement the grid. But solar and wind combined will not be replacing the coal-fired plants in MI any time soon.
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  #15  
Old 02-09-2013, 12:06 PM
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Oh, and by the way:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...ubsidies_.html
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  #16  
Old 02-09-2013, 12:18 PM
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MM, If I stipulate that there are problems in implementation of a residentially based solar power grid will you stipulate that FOX is full of shit? I mean, that's the subject of the thread, right?

John
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  #17  
Old 02-09-2013, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
MM, If I stipulate that there are problems in implementation of a residentially based solar power grid will you stipulate that FOX is full of shit? I mean, that's the subject of the thread, right?

John
I'd suggest that the clip showed the Fox contributor not presenting her facts terribly well. But if you read that article I last posted, sourced from the same on-line publication as the OP, it contains this statement:

"In the words of the German Association of Physicists, “solar energy cannot replace any additional power plants.” On short, overcast winter days, Germany’s 1.1 million solar-power systems can generate no electricity at all. The country is then forced to import considerable amounts of electricity from nuclear power plants in France and the Czech Republic."

That would seem to support the point that the Fox contributor is attempting to make.
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  #18  
Old 02-09-2013, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mini me View Post
I'd suggest that the clip showed the Fox contributor not presenting her facts terribly well. But if you read that article I last posted, sourced from the same on-line publication as the OP, it contains this statement:

"In the words of the German Association of Physicists, “solar energy cannot replace any additional power plants.” On short, overcast winter days, Germany’s 1.1 million solar-power systems can generate no electricity at all. The country is then forced to import considerable amounts of electricity from nuclear power plants in France and the Czech Republic."

That would seem to support the point that the Fox contributor is attempting to make.
The article you posted doesn't address the subject of this thread. Also, what limitations exist in Germany relative to insolation don't apply in the US except in Alaska. We have much, much more available sunshine than they do overall.

And to say that the Fox reporter didn't "present her facts well" is absurd. She didn't present any facts at all.

John
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Last edited by Boreas; 02-09-2013 at 12:59 PM.
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  #19  
Old 02-09-2013, 12:53 PM
mini me mini me is offline
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Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
The article you posted doesn't address the subject of this thread. Also, what limitations exist in Germany relative to insolation don't apply in the US except in Alaska. We have much, much more available sunshine than they do overall.

And to say that the Fox reporter didn't "present her facts well" is absurd. She didn't present any facts at all.

John

John
LOL!

The subject of the thread is that the lady on Fox was dopey for suggesting Germany gets more sun, making solar less viable. I then posted that her comment rings a bell, 'cuz here in MI we don't get much sun, which is why solar isn't getting much traction in MI.

Saying that total hours of sunlight is a factor in solar energy is correct. The Fox contributor got her facts a bit backwards, but the essence of her argument is correct. That's all I was trying to say, as absurd as it may sound.

By the way, power generation tends to be a local enterprise. What works in California won't always work in Michigan (or Germany). It appears from the article that solar doesn't work in Germany as a long term solution. Doesn't mean it can't work in parts of the USA.
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  #20  
Old 02-09-2013, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by mini me View Post
Saying that total hours of sunlight is a factor in solar energy is correct. The Fox contributor got her facts a bit backwards, but the essence of her argument is correct.
The essence of her argument was the "backward" facts, namely that solar works in Germany, and can't work here, because they get more sun than we do. How can you defend such nonsense in any way?

John
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