Political Forums  

Go Back   Political Forums > Current events

We appreciate your help

in keeping this site going.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #71  
Old 10-24-2014, 01:47 AM
BlueStreak's Avatar
BlueStreak BlueStreak is offline
Area Man
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 27,407
Well, Tom, seeing as how most people couldn't tell you who their local representative is and a few more might know who their governor is, but they all seem to know who the dreaded Obama is............

I'm just sayin'.

Dave
__________________
"When the lie is so big and the fog so thick, the Republican trick can play out again....."-------Frank Zappa
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 10-24-2014, 02:04 AM
BlueStreak's Avatar
BlueStreak BlueStreak is offline
Area Man
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 27,407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ike Bana View Post
I believe this continues to be argued all these years later because Lincoln was forced to walk a very fine line whenever he was pressed on the issue of emancipation. Lincoln's legacy took a lot of grief...particularly from certain historians, in particular, Barbara J. Fields, regarding his sitting on the fence for so long regarding emancipation. It's easy to spew these somewhat harsh criticisms. However, had Lincoln declared for emancipation too soon, there's a real possibility that the loss of support would have caused a loss of the war...which almost happened anyway. And who knows how long slavery would have continued in the south had the Union withdrawn from the war and the secession was successful. Reckon how Fields would be looking at history if it had gone in that direction. Probably pissed off at Lincoln anyway.
I think it would have changed from the agricultural base, due to the rise of mechanization and technology. However, slaves could have been employed during the industrial revolution to fill unskilled and low skilled positions well into the 20th century. And "domestic help", is something that will never go away so long as there are people who can afford it. Consider the fact that the cheaper it is, the more demand there would be. In the manufacturing sector, (Call me crazy, but....), pressure from international competition is definitely driving the push to suppress wages, roll back work rules, squeeze more productivity from workers and deregulate the workplace. In fact, we have lost a tremendous amount of industry over the last few decades in places where people attempted to counter the tide.

If left unchecked, where do you suppose that road might lead?

Dave
__________________
"When the lie is so big and the fog so thick, the Republican trick can play out again....."-------Frank Zappa
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 10-24-2014, 02:05 AM
BlueStreak's Avatar
BlueStreak BlueStreak is offline
Area Man
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 27,407
Quote:
Originally Posted by nailer View Post
Honest Abe would be amused by the mythical giant he has become.
As would St. Ronnie, I suppose.

Dave
__________________
"When the lie is so big and the fog so thick, the Republican trick can play out again....."-------Frank Zappa
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 10-24-2014, 07:25 AM
merrylander's Avatar
merrylander merrylander is offline
Resident octogenarian
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 20,860
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStreak View Post
I think it would have changed from the agricultural base, due to the rise of mechanization and technology. However, slaves could have been employed during the industrial revolution to fill unskilled and low skilled positions well into the 20th century. And "domestic help", is something that will never go away so long as there are people who can afford it. Consider the fact that the cheaper it is, the more demand there would be. In the manufacturing sector, (Call me crazy, but....), pressure from international competition is definitely driving the push to suppress wages, roll back work rules, squeeze more productivity from workers and deregulate the workplace. In fact, we have lost a tremendous amount of industry over the last few decades in places where people attempted to counter the tide.

If left unchecked, where do you suppose that road might lead?

Dave
The simple answer is screw the WTO and impose tariffs.
__________________
Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.
Eleanor Roosevelt
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 10-24-2014, 08:42 AM
Ike Bana Ike Bana is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 8,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStreak View Post
I think it would have changed from the agricultural base, due to the rise of mechanization and technology. However, slaves could have been employed during the industrial revolution to fill unskilled and low skilled positions well into the 20th century. And "domestic help", is something that will never go away so long as there are people who can afford it. Consider the fact that the cheaper it is, the more demand there would be. In the manufacturing sector, (Call me crazy, but....), pressure from international competition is definitely driving the push to suppress wages, roll back work rules, squeeze more productivity from workers and deregulate the workplace. In fact, we have lost a tremendous amount of industry over the last few decades in places where people attempted to counter the tide.

If left unchecked, where do you suppose that road might lead?

Dave
I would only add that the real explosion in the slave trade and the numbers of black people held in bondage didn't happen until Whitney invented the cotton gin. It was the cotton gin that the agrarian south used to make slaveholding really pay off for most farm owners. Before that, the maximum production and income from hand cleaning raw cotton was not worth what it cost to keep slaves alive. Only the really big plantations could really profit from it. After the cotton gin became available, every moderately sized farm was suddenly in the market for slaves.
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 10-24-2014, 02:47 PM
nailer's Avatar
nailer nailer is offline
Rational Anarchist
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: DFW
Posts: 7,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStreak View Post
As would St. Ronnie, I suppose.

Dave
I think he'd glory in it.
__________________
"We have met the enemy and he is us."

Last edited by nailer; 10-24-2014 at 09:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 10-24-2014, 09:34 PM
nailer's Avatar
nailer nailer is offline
Rational Anarchist
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: DFW
Posts: 7,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ike Bana View Post
I would only add that the real explosion in the slave trade and the numbers of black people held in bondage didn't happen until Whitney invented the cotton gin. It was the cotton gin that the agrarian south used to make slaveholding really pay off for most farm owners. Before that, the maximum production and income from hand cleaning raw cotton was not worth what it cost to keep slaves alive. Only the really big plantations could really profit from it. After the cotton gin became available, every moderately sized farm was suddenly in the market for slaves.
When cotton production began its dramatic increase as a result or the cotton gin the South had a significant surplus of slave labor. The cotton belt's labor needs were primarily met by these slaves, their children and grandchildren.

By the Revolution most slaves were African American, I.e. born here. In 1860 the slave population was essentially African American and most of the Afican slaves were old. For me the importance of this is that antebellum Planter wealth was derived fom the labor of enslaved citizens.
__________________
"We have met the enemy and he is us."

Last edited by nailer; 10-24-2014 at 10:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:52 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.