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10-24-2014, 01:47 AM
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Area Man
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 27,407
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Well, Tom, seeing as how most people couldn't tell you who their local representative is and a few more might know who their governor is, but they all seem to know who the dreaded Obama is............
I'm just sayin'.
Dave
__________________
"When the lie is so big and the fog so thick, the Republican trick can play out again....."-------Frank Zappa
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10-24-2014, 02:04 AM
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Area Man
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 27,407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ike Bana
I believe this continues to be argued all these years later because Lincoln was forced to walk a very fine line whenever he was pressed on the issue of emancipation. Lincoln's legacy took a lot of grief...particularly from certain historians, in particular, Barbara J. Fields, regarding his sitting on the fence for so long regarding emancipation. It's easy to spew these somewhat harsh criticisms. However, had Lincoln declared for emancipation too soon, there's a real possibility that the loss of support would have caused a loss of the war...which almost happened anyway. And who knows how long slavery would have continued in the south had the Union withdrawn from the war and the secession was successful. Reckon how Fields would be looking at history if it had gone in that direction. Probably pissed off at Lincoln anyway.
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I think it would have changed from the agricultural base, due to the rise of mechanization and technology. However, slaves could have been employed during the industrial revolution to fill unskilled and low skilled positions well into the 20th century. And "domestic help", is something that will never go away so long as there are people who can afford it. Consider the fact that the cheaper it is, the more demand there would be. In the manufacturing sector, (Call me crazy, but....), pressure from international competition is definitely driving the push to suppress wages, roll back work rules, squeeze more productivity from workers and deregulate the workplace. In fact, we have lost a tremendous amount of industry over the last few decades in places where people attempted to counter the tide.
If left unchecked, where do you suppose that road might lead?
Dave
__________________
"When the lie is so big and the fog so thick, the Republican trick can play out again....."-------Frank Zappa
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10-24-2014, 02:05 AM
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Area Man
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 27,407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nailer
Honest Abe would be amused by the mythical giant he has become.
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As would St. Ronnie, I suppose.
Dave
__________________
"When the lie is so big and the fog so thick, the Republican trick can play out again....."-------Frank Zappa
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10-24-2014, 07:25 AM
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Resident octogenarian
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 20,860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStreak
I think it would have changed from the agricultural base, due to the rise of mechanization and technology. However, slaves could have been employed during the industrial revolution to fill unskilled and low skilled positions well into the 20th century. And "domestic help", is something that will never go away so long as there are people who can afford it. Consider the fact that the cheaper it is, the more demand there would be. In the manufacturing sector, (Call me crazy, but....), pressure from international competition is definitely driving the push to suppress wages, roll back work rules, squeeze more productivity from workers and deregulate the workplace. In fact, we have lost a tremendous amount of industry over the last few decades in places where people attempted to counter the tide.
If left unchecked, where do you suppose that road might lead?
Dave
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The simple answer is screw the WTO and impose tariffs.
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Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.
Eleanor Roosevelt
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10-24-2014, 08:42 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 8,310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStreak
I think it would have changed from the agricultural base, due to the rise of mechanization and technology. However, slaves could have been employed during the industrial revolution to fill unskilled and low skilled positions well into the 20th century. And "domestic help", is something that will never go away so long as there are people who can afford it. Consider the fact that the cheaper it is, the more demand there would be. In the manufacturing sector, (Call me crazy, but....), pressure from international competition is definitely driving the push to suppress wages, roll back work rules, squeeze more productivity from workers and deregulate the workplace. In fact, we have lost a tremendous amount of industry over the last few decades in places where people attempted to counter the tide.
If left unchecked, where do you suppose that road might lead?
Dave
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I would only add that the real explosion in the slave trade and the numbers of black people held in bondage didn't happen until Whitney invented the cotton gin. It was the cotton gin that the agrarian south used to make slaveholding really pay off for most farm owners. Before that, the maximum production and income from hand cleaning raw cotton was not worth what it cost to keep slaves alive. Only the really big plantations could really profit from it. After the cotton gin became available, every moderately sized farm was suddenly in the market for slaves.
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10-24-2014, 02:47 PM
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Rational Anarchist
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: DFW
Posts: 7,315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStreak
As would St. Ronnie, I suppose.
Dave
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I think he'd glory in it.
__________________
"We have met the enemy and he is us."
Last edited by nailer; 10-24-2014 at 09:35 PM.
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10-24-2014, 09:34 PM
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Rational Anarchist
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: DFW
Posts: 7,315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ike Bana
I would only add that the real explosion in the slave trade and the numbers of black people held in bondage didn't happen until Whitney invented the cotton gin. It was the cotton gin that the agrarian south used to make slaveholding really pay off for most farm owners. Before that, the maximum production and income from hand cleaning raw cotton was not worth what it cost to keep slaves alive. Only the really big plantations could really profit from it. After the cotton gin became available, every moderately sized farm was suddenly in the market for slaves.
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When cotton production began its dramatic increase as a result or the cotton gin the South had a significant surplus of slave labor. The cotton belt's labor needs were primarily met by these slaves, their children and grandchildren.
By the Revolution most slaves were African American, I.e. born here. In 1860 the slave population was essentially African American and most of the Afican slaves were old. For me the importance of this is that antebellum Planter wealth was derived fom the labor of enslaved citizens.
__________________
"We have met the enemy and he is us."
Last edited by nailer; 10-24-2014 at 10:01 PM.
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